to consider this an act of theft?

[Lillielangtry]

Last night I went into a pub, bought a bottle of wine and sat down in the pub garden.

We had drunk just a glass each when we were told to leave because the place was closing. We were surprised the barman hadn't warned us when we bought the wine that we probably wouldn't have time to drink it all because the pub was soon to close.

We tried to take the unfinished bottle with us when we left, but were confronted by several uniformed security guards at the exit to the pub, one of whom forcibly took the bottle from me.

We remonstrated, of course, but were simply told repeatedly that we weren't allowed to take drink from the premises. I asked if that was because the pub didn't have an off-licence - they didn't know, but I'm guessing that was the reason. Also, apparently it's a crime to be out on the street in that area (I was in a big city). Of course, we planned to get straight into a taxi once we had left the pub rather than waddle down the road swigging it.

Bearing in mind that security guards have no more power than you or me (many people think they are invested with some sort of legal power but that's not true - they are simply members of the public with a uniform on), was this theft, do you think?

I don't see how it can't be. A member of the public (albeit a burly one with a uniform on) forcibly took something from me. To say that it's a crime to be on the streets with alcohol - or that the pub doesn't have an off-licence - is no excuse, surely. You cannot take someone else's property in order to prevent them from committing a crime and for that to be legally OK.

Sigh, Billy Banter. No, I'm not too important to stick to the rules. I didn't know it WAS a rule. If I had, I would have hidden it inside my cardigan.

So what time was it when you purchased the bottle? And when they removed it from you?

It might be coming across, Op, that you are over-exerted about a situation that was of your own making and didn't end to your satisfaction.

If you truly wish to get to the bottom of whether the removal of your wine was an illegal act or not, then post in Legal.

Otherwise, lesson learnt, and in future never leave the house without an emergency bottle stopper and expandable shopper tucked in your clutch.

For you, for later

Don't know, dojo. And don't know. It was very late. Well past midnight. And so it should have probably occurred to us that they might kick us out soon. But, as I said, the pub was heaving and so we didn't think. We also didn't know that the rules say that you can't take a half-finished bottle of wine away. I live in a little market town and it's perfectly OK to do it in my local pubs. Not that that's got anything to do with it. It just never occurred to us that we wouldn't have time to finish it.

That's by the by. The bit that interested me was whether the doorman had a legal right to whip it off me.

My lovely monster, I don't know why you and certain others have got the impression that I'm storming around with the veins in my neck bulging. I'm perfectly calm, still mildly irritated with the officious doormen admittedly, but not overexerting myself in any way.

As for your other comments - indeed! It was well past my bedtime anyway. I'm far too old for that sort of shenanigans.

i think this is poor customer service

i would write to the pub/brewery and tell them so
you might bet a voucher for wine

i dont think the bouncers did anything wrong

You didn't check the time or see/hear the warning for drinking up. That's not the doormens fault they were doing what they are employed to do.

YABU,its your own fault.

I certainly don't have that impression!!

Also - never too old for shenanigans. That is a myth.

Freakin, that is not my point at all. My original point (way up there!) was to ask if the doormen were legally entitled to snatch my wine off me. Nothing whatsoever to do with drinking-up time etc.

Well I have no idea where you live,but where I do yes they would. Would you prefer if they called the police? You thought you could break the law and then find out you can't.

Freakin, how do you know that they are legally entitled to? Security staff have no more legal powers than any other member of the public.

I didn't break any rules or laws. I innocently tried to take a half-finished bottle of wine from a pub and was prevented from doing so. Have you read the thread?

I have read the thread and you stated that were in a dry area. You also didn't enquire whether the pub allowed you to bring your half drank wine off the premises.

Where I live the doormen would have legal right.

Under what law, Freakin?

The laws of the country I live in.

Which one of the laws of the country you live in?

As I said in a previous post I have no idea where you live but based on where I live they have the right.

Typing the same thing repeatedly does not make it necessarily true, Freakin.

Anyway, I'm off to brief my counsel.

I don't think it matters if OP knew what time it was or not - since licencing laws changed I have no idea, none at all, when 'kicking-out' time is at different pubs, and it's hardly ever clear from the outside IME. Could be 12, could be 2, could be 4 even!

Laws relating to the landlord of the pub you were at. He/she/the brewery have rules,you agreed to them by being a customer,they agreed to your custom by serving you.

Next time stick it up your jumper

I've never considered the theft question, but I have smuggled many drinks out of many pubs in my jacket.

But they didn't steal the wine from you - they prevented you taking it off premises. If you had stood just in the door way and glugged it down they wouldn't have tried to take it from you, or if you'd finished in drinking up time.

Even in a dry area, providing you and your friend weren't drunk and disorderly or being indiscreet about your half bottle, I think the worst that would have happened to you from a passing policeman is they would have taken the bottle from you. The consequences could be much, much more severe to the licensed premises though, potentially leading to a loss of license and livelihood.

The doorpeople in this situation are acting to protect the license. I know you want to consider the 'theft or not' aspect as a separate element but I don't think you can, in this particular situation.

I feel sorry for people who work in pubs, dealing with the public under the influence, what a job! I think it's common sense/ knowledge that you can't take your half consumed drinks with you around a city centre.
Our city centre is a sight to behold at 1am on a weekend. I couldn't imagine the escalation in chaos if they all had a drink in their hands.
Dig around, the law may be on your side but in my opinion know your responsibilities as well as your rights.

And I imagine he forcibly removed your bottle because you refused his requests to leave it behind.

I'm not sure when you buy a bottle of wine in the pub, that you buy the actual bottle? Just the contents?

So, you wouldn't be allowed to take a glass of wine away..I don't think anyone would let you leave a restaurant with a plate of food on the basis that you have 'bought' your dinner.

Obviously the bottle would be chucked/recycled, but still...you didn't go in and buy a bottle of wine in the sense that you would if you bought a bottle of wine in Tescos.

That said, I'd have been annoyed if it had happened to me (so would have down it though!)