AIBU to think that sometimes people try too hard at Christmas

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Name-changed just in case. Some details changed to avoid outage.

My very good friend (F) has asked me to post this.

F and her DiL have always had a good and loving relationship and choose to spend time together without the son around. F is a kind and loving grandmother/babysitter to her 2yr old DGD and will be to the one that arrives in the new year. However, she has concerns that DiL has turned into Christmaszilla.

DiL says that this is the first Christmas that DGD will know what's going on and is determined to run it like a military operation with all the extras. It has to be memorable and magical. There will be a Christmas Hamper, Elf on a shelf, homemade Advent Calendar with home made presents, decorations up the moment December arrives, outside lights and so much more. She's making noises about a trip to see Santa in Lapland - you get the picture. Every time they meet up DiL has another new idea from somewhere.

F is expected to help and do a lot because pregnant DiL "can't do it all!". F feels that most of it actually doesn't need doing. And suspects she may be expected to fund a lot of it. She's wriggling out of things as kindly as she can and is considering breaking an arm so as to have a better excuse.

We are both in our 60s and remember Christmas as a very magical time without all the stuff that people do these days. It was magical when our DCs were small without shelved elves etc. I'm all for family traditions at Christmas and we keep to all of ours and they make the magic - but forcing loads of new traditions which are tiring (and expensive) to execute on over-excited children seems crazy to us.

Are we being unreasonable old fogies?

"Christmas Day will be at F's house, Dil wants it so because F has a big fireplace and there will be a log fire. It's a big house so plenty of room for everyone and a big tree. F has always said she'd understand if DiL and DS wanted their own Christmas but they love going to hers."

Of course they do if they don't have to do anything!!

Exactly didll

Perhaps the friend needs to be more assertive and tell the DIL to do her own work and have her own family Christmas in her own house.

diddl Sorry.

You say the DIL is forcing lots of new traditions on to everybody and I agree you can have too much of a good thing. On the other hand, traditions have to start somewhere. They don't always just emerge and there maybe something special that the DIL would like to do that comes from her childhood or something she wishes she had done as a child. I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea to try and start new traditions when you have small children. They do remember it.

On the other hand, you have to be able to afford the in terms of both time and money. You shouldn't be taking advantage of doting grandmothers/MIL to fund your dreams of the 'perfect' Christmas. That is going too far and puts pressure on other people which is what F is now having to deal with.

I agree that the best solution is to sit down and plan Christmas together. That way F can have some input into what happens (and who pays for it) and can perhaps provide a couple of gentle reality checks about what a small child can really cope with. She can remind her there will be other years and that traditions don't all have to start of day one and that by next Christmas things will have changed with the new baby being around anyway. If they sit down together they can reasonably divide up the jobs and the cost too. It seems a much better solution than letting the DIL keep going until either she combusts or she falls out with F.

oH SORRY i LOVE SOOTY.

I used the term old fogies, as it was in the op as in....

" Are we being unreasonable old fogies?"

So in a light hearted way I am answering saying that ultimately, whilst I would not wish on old man who doesn't want too, feel obliged to be up and down ladders, nor people in their retirement to fund someone else's ideas of xmas, that before even any of this has started, yes, they are miserable old fogies.

Sooty, perhaps you should read the op before you start to jump in, or did you also want to pull op up on this....

Re the Coal, again that was a joke, you havant heard the jokes about ..you thought my childhood was bad...

Anyway I hope op takes her excited DIL down a peg or too soon and crushes her dreams, before too long, so she can get over it.

I also agree that it would be best that DIL has xmas in her own house.

Her own way and then she can talk and do as much or little as she wants.

well.........i have made a lot more of christmas than my parents did- they didnt even have a stab at Father Christmas! - we did have nice pressies though.

my dc (although 2 are older now) had santa till they no longer believed, nice pressies. but the stuff that sticks is the Xmas walk before dinner, xmas eve carols in town, nice xmas eve snacks and stockings.

never heard of hamper (what is an elf on a shelf?) or any of the rest of it.
your friend is not being unreasonable at all.

Have read whole thread now (and thanks Becca, don't think a quote of mine has ever got five 'loves' before :o)

I hadn't thought of the hormonal issues and PFB aspect , my 2nd was conceived mid November so DD's last only-child Xmas was a washout with morning sickness anyway (and she was very ill just before Xmas) so hadn't experienced that worry/guilt over making that Xmas perfect. That's a very sensible observation.

I am about this all being at F's house though, no, that's not fair. F should be able to decorate her house however she wants. Nothing wrong with them all having Xmas there (hell, I'd love for my parents to be festive enough to actually want to host Xmas!) but the host is in charge IMO.

You can do your nice cosy family things, whatever you're used to. You can pick up a couple of new things that you hear about and fancy a go on (I do Christmas pjs from Santa on Xmas eve as I read about it here and thought it was rather sweet- plus DD actually needed new pjs).

All of this is rather lovely when it's laid back, chilled out fun. This is the thing that makes the memories- the warm fuzzy feeling you get when you do things together- not the actual thing itself.

The moment it turns into a high pressure performance where no one is allowed to put a foot out of line is when you're on the road to an Eastenders-style showdown that ruins it for everyone.

I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea to try and start new traditions when you have small children. They do remember it.

I totally agree with that. People who had nothing to go on have to start somewhere. If it weren't for MN my Xmas would be really really dull and I would still feel completely depressed that I had no idea how to 'do' Xmas, and resentful to my parents for never giving a shit (ok I still feel the latter a bit but at least I have moved on from the 'stuck'ness). Seriously, I'm really grateful for MN at Xmas as I'd be clueless without it. Nobody else mentioned Xmas eve jammies but it's now a treasured tradition that I expect will stay long after the DCs have stopped believing in the elves that leave them by the front door.

New traditions don't have to be forced, you just pick an idea and try it out. Although arguably it's not technically a 'tradition' straight away of course.

Sooty, perhaps you should read the op before you start to jump in, or did you also want to pull op up on this

Perhaps you should read the full thread in which case you would have seen my follow up comment where I acknowledge the words in the OP, and that I had only noticed them after I posted.

Re the Coal, again that was a joke, you havant heard the jokes about ..you thought my childhood was bad

In the context you wrote it I don't happen to think it was funny. There's far too much casual ageism on these boards and people like you are a part of it.

So in a light hearted way I am answering saying that ultimately, whilst I would not wish on old man who doesn't want too, feel obliged to be up and down ladders, nor people in their retirement to fund someone else's ideas of xmas, that before even any of this has started, yes, they are miserable old fogies

Not what you said originally, and the "light hearted" comment is just a cop out. Your posts sound thoroughly unpleasant to me.

Anyway I hope op takes her excited DIL down a peg or too soon and crushes her dreams, before too long, so she can get over it

Oh well. I'm with you on that one. I think she should have been more assertive with her seemingly self centred and obsessive DIL in the first place.

I also agree that it would be best that DIL has xmas in her own house. Her own way and then she can talk and do as much or little as she wants

There you go. We agree on that one as well.

Is it just possible that some of your friend's own traditions were perceived as totally unnecessary and expensive innovations by the generation before you?

My mother complains a lot about the unnecessary innovations in food and home cooking these days (all these strange food stuffs and recipes) and how sad it is that people can't just stick to the simple time hallowed ways. I can remember her MIL saying exactly the same thing to her.

Simple and time hallowed to each of them simply meant "whatever I used to do", "the thing that seemed simple to me because it came naturally so I didn't have to think about it".

What they are, in fact, worried about is seeing the initiative pass into the hands of some other, younger woman who isn't them.

Anyway I hope op takes her excited DIL down a peg or too soon and crushes her dreams, before too long, so she can get over it.

Yes we are all agreed on that one. However I think it's a bit rich that, in a post, where Macaroon for not having read the opening post, she overlooks that the fact that it's not the OP's DiL.

A small (and in many ways irrelevant) point but I could not resist making it.

What they are, in fact, worried about is seeing the initiative pass into the hands of some other, younger woman who isn't them

This is a reasonable point Cory but it appears that it is not so much that DiL has ideas of her own, but that she is expecting her PsIL to implement them

And I still think Macaroon may be having a little bit of fun at our expense, but s/he insists not, so...

in a post, where Macaroon for not having read the opening post

This should be in a post where Macaroon berates Sooty for not having read....

And I am so relieved I have not berated anyone for typos!

I think pastelmacaroons attempts at humour are a bit lame actually. Still, if they amuse her...

I didn't take up the point of it not being the OP ' s DIL. I hadn't actually noticed the stupidity of the comment other than the fact that pastelmacaroons hadn't even taken on board the fact I'd made a follow up comment.

And some people do seem to take Christmas so bloody seriously. No wonder it's so high on so many people's stress lists.

Oh dear I think I may have Christmaszilla tendencies! But I don't expect other people to do it or fund it for me.

Once when DD was about 7 or 8 she was helping me decorate the tree and suddenly said "Oh I do like the way we do Christmas". Makes it all worth while.

Basically, your friend's DIL wants to use F's house as the backdrop to her xmas fantasies.

Is that not slightly insulting?

I would hazard a guess that the primary reason she wants to go over there is not to be with the whole family, it's the lovely big house and the fire and so on.

AND to top it off, she expects everyone else to pay for an put into action her plans for her. How spoilt.

The deal is, she can do exactly what she likes in her own home.

If she chooses to go to someone else's house, then she gets not one iota of say over how things are done. Not one. You put up and are grateful for the hospitality.

eggy spot on.

Great thread. I also like to keep things simple. Re. your friend OP, I think it is possibly motivated by a wish to make it a special family xmas- but no way does your friend in her 60s have to get involved or pay!

Does she expect people to pay for it eggy? or is that op's suspicions and OP never came back did she and still no mention of the son?

I love Sooty.

No I am not being casually ageist.

the sad thing is egy, she thinks she can have a say in how things are at her PILS, perhaps - and there is no mention of her own DP, she also has some influence there as does her DH.

I bet the poor thing is totally caught up in the excitement with lots of other things and wants to be organised re xmas, fearing the NB will take her time up.
Nothing wrong with that.

I just hope the ops friend isnt upset when the DIL gets upset, and has xmas at her house and then says she has been pushed out and DIL has comandered xmasses to her house whereas before they were always at hers!

My DM wouldn't have given two hoots If i had wanted to put extra lights up at xmas. If there was an issue with who would be going up a ladder she would have said so, and a suitable person found, rather than sneakily posting on here.
Nor would she find it sinister in some way if her own daughter was very happy and excited to have this wonderful house as a backdrop to the festivities....it would be logical....

BUt the op isnt talking about DM and DD is she. But the old MIL scenario.