...to be a bit pissed off about being paid less than a cleaner?

[teenyweenytadpole]

My friend just got a job as a cleaner, she is cleaning upmarket holiday cottages and being paid 10 pounds an hour. In contrast, I work in a small preschool and get paid 8.50 an hour (leaders role). It just seems odd to me that society values what I do so poorly. I have to take on responsibility for these small children in loco parentis, take care of their physical and emotional needs, their safety and well being, manage toilet training, nappy changing, etc, I also have to provide stimulating and enriching activities for them, not only that but we have to have all the planning and paperwork in place, all the safeguarding procedures, all the provision for special needs, I have to deal with the parents, go on training courses to make sure I am legal and up to date, be subjected to day long grillings from Ofsted....8.50 seems a bit measly, no? I am in my 40's, well educated, a Mum, not an inpexperienced 17 year old. I realise it is my choice to do this job and I enjoy it, I love seeing these tiny people learn and grow and love seeing them go on to thrive at school afterwards, the job fits around my own kids, and it is fun! But it's very hard work and physically and mentally demanding. I guess IABU but I just wish I was paid more to do it!

Childcare workers are underpaid - but a cleaner probably won't be earning as much as you because they usually have to travel a lot between jobs.

They are usually also self- employed so no pension etc.

Yanbu.

YABU and undermining the work of a cleaner (even if that isn't your intention). I do understand where your coming from but if you don't like it, change it!

So go and be a cleaner.

Oi - my cleaner is fabby and earns her monies. As Matsikula says, you are comparing hourly pay.Not other benefits.

Do you get paid hols? My cleaner doesn't. You might even get sick pay.

You probably have more job satisfaction ( except the poo and vomity bits) than my cleaner making my loo and shower shine.

YANBUish. Her hourly rate is higher than yours, but she probably has a much shorter working week, the cost of supplies and travel to factor in (if she's not earning enough to offset it all against tax), less job security, and much more unpleasant and physically demanding things to deal with than you. (Some people are really nasty and leave sharps etc hidden in things they know that cleaners will have to touch, and leave their rooms in a shocking state even at "upmarket" places.)

However, I do think preschool leaders deserve better pay for what they do.

Attitude toward cleaners is a bit much. You chose your career and picked your job - presumably you knew the salary involved? I understand you would like more money, wouldn't we all, but to sound so snobbish toward someone elses job is a bit of a poor show

It's supply and demand I'm afraid. Market forces and all that. But I know what you mean - I felt very uncomfortable when I found I would be paying my child carer less than my cleaner so I increased what I pay her to match my cleaner's rate. She was pleased but clearly thinks I'm a bit odd.

Not undermining the job of a cleaner, it's hard work and I've done it myself. But at the end of the day you just turn up and clean, that's it. There's no real responsibility. And I don't get a pension either....

Yes I know I could change jobs, of course I could, but I have put a lot of time and effort into my job.

I know in fact I can't be paid more because the setting could not afford it.

It's just the relativities of it that annoy me, I guess.

That's pretty disparaging towards cleaners. I think you are totally justified to complain about your poor pay compared to the high standards your job requires...but not to hold out "a cleaner" as some freaky, low-status example.

You are being reasonable to complain about what you're paid.

You are being unreasonable to compare your work to others.

People who care for/teach children should be paid much, much more then they are. This is true irrespective of the amount of money a cleaner earns.

A cleaner who cleaned all day for the same employer would probably be paid less than you per hour.

I also think that the many, many people who will jump on this thread and say "oh, but my cleaner doesn't get holiday pay or sick pay" should be ashamed of themselves. Be reasonable and negotiate reasonable terms with your cleaner, beyond a cursory £10 an hour.

Cleaners can be key holders.Cleaners can be dealing with valuable objects.
Cleaners can be dealing with pretty strong chemicals and/or machinery.Cleaners can be doing unsocial hours and work part time.Etc etc etc.

There is a wide range and you cannot say cleaning has no real responsibility.

I imagine there's a fair few cleaners with no pension.

I am not ashamed of myself HeadsDownThumbsUp. And not sure why I should be.

Heads down cleaners tend to be self employed.this equals no holidays,no sick pay and no pensions. Its how it is when you are self employed. Rather than unfair clients.

YABU you are paid what the labour market conditions dictate

Oh, thinking about what our society values financially would drive you mad. By that measure, a teenager who can put a ball in the back of a net is worth millions of times more than teachers, doctors, nurses, carers, farmers, firefighters, police, etc etc.

Because I think it's callous to employ someone on a regular basis without a thought for their working circumstances beyond an hourly rate. It would be great if we could have a system similar to some European countries, where domestic workers are part of a well organised system and do receive clear pensionable benefits and holiday leave. But as there's no will to put this in place, the best thing we can do is come to reasonable arrangements with workers we employ for low wages, and who have little protection in the job market. Agreed paid holiday and some formal arrangement about sickness seems reasonable to me. Not just shrugging our shoulders and saying, oh well, cleaners don't get this.... They don't get it because they're not given it, and they're in too weak a position in the job market to bargain for it.

I've known of people who sacked their cleaners because they missed appointments due to illness.

Apologies for derailing the thread. I do think childcare workers deserve far better pay and conditions.

Where in the country are you? I run a preschool and pay our leader £12/hr, seems to be the going rate around here?

But I would agree you get paid holiday (at minimum statutory entitlement is equal to 12.07%, immediately giving you an effective rate of £9.53 compared to the cleaner). Any sick pay entitlement will push it higher, but I know not all preschools pay this.

Also agree childcare is underpaid and not valued enough - having been involved with preschool education for the last 2 years, I know how hard they work.

Maybe you could renegotiate your pay teeny?

That way you might feel better.

Btw my niece earns 10 an hour babysitting, and her brother earns 20 an hour doing odd jobs.

It makes no sense to me as he has no responsibility for the lives and happiness of anyone other than himself, and she is in effect in loco parents, with all that entails.

Hey hey hey! That doesn't sound very nice OP.

I'm a cleaner. I'm self employed. I pay my taxes. I do my own accounts and advertising. That part is still work but I don't get paid for it. I don't get a pension, sick pay or holiday pay either.

I do have responsibility. I have the keys to the houses of some clients. Today I was in a house belonging to healthcare professionals where confidentiality is a must. I'm paid in part for my honesty and trustworthiness.

Their house has thousands of pounds of antiques and tech equipment. While I was working their sons came in from school. I'm trusted to be left alone in their house with my clients' precious boys.

I work extremely hard too and I earn every penny of my hourly rate (which is actually more than your friend's).

I've worked for clients who are dirty and disrespectful, who can't even be bothered to flush the loo after themselves. That's sometimes what you have to do when you're self employed and the alternative is that your kids don't get fed.

So can you cut the looking down on cleaners out please? It's really not nice.

Renegotiate her pay? On what planet?

Your experiences with cleaners and my experiences are different Heads.