...to be a bit pissed off about being paid less than a cleaner?

[teenyweenytadpole]

My friend just got a job as a cleaner, she is cleaning upmarket holiday cottages and being paid 10 pounds an hour. In contrast, I work in a small preschool and get paid 8.50 an hour (leaders role). It just seems odd to me that society values what I do so poorly. I have to take on responsibility for these small children in loco parentis, take care of their physical and emotional needs, their safety and well being, manage toilet training, nappy changing, etc, I also have to provide stimulating and enriching activities for them, not only that but we have to have all the planning and paperwork in place, all the safeguarding procedures, all the provision for special needs, I have to deal with the parents, go on training courses to make sure I am legal and up to date, be subjected to day long grillings from Ofsted....8.50 seems a bit measly, no? I am in my 40's, well educated, a Mum, not an inpexperienced 17 year old. I realise it is my choice to do this job and I enjoy it, I love seeing these tiny people learn and grow and love seeing them go on to thrive at school afterwards, the job fits around my own kids, and it is fun! But it's very hard work and physically and mentally demanding. I guess IABU but I just wish I was paid more to do it!

I think people should be paid according to qualification level and responsibility.

married you sound lovely as does your cleaner.

Plenty of people employ gardeners. Which is fortunate for me, as I'm a gardener.

I don't expect or receive sick pay or holiday pay. I got given a mince pie once, though.

"I think people should be paid according to qualification level and responsibility."

That doesn't work with market forces. Cleaners get paid relatively well for an unskilled job because no one wants to do it.

Because HeadsDown cleaners are self employed and all of your nonsense about how people should think about holidays/sick leave etc for their cleaners is indicating that you don't think the Poor Little Cleaners can run their own businesses, that they are somehow too 'dim' to factor this in their rate. Fucking patronising clap trap.

OP, you're actually on a fairly good wage there anyway.
I worked as a senior nursery nurse, degree qualified, in a day nursery.
I was paid a measly £6.40 an hour.
I did have sick pay and holiday pay (though I got days taken off my holiday for bank holidays when the nursery was closed anyway, so only got 4 days holiday a year for working 3 days a week)
I had no pension, no childcare vouchers, accrued no extra holiday for working huge amounts of overtime.
Needless to say I became disillusioned with the level of exploitation, and lack of scope for progress.
I left last year and my life is now immeasurably better.
What I'm trying to say is: firstly, your lot is better than you think, secondly, if you are dissatisfied with your career position, change it.

Just want to point out that there is skill involved in cleaning.Many cleaners have an in- depth knowledge of methods of cleaning to get best results/what products to use/how to treat various materials and antiques.

That knowledge is their qualification.

There are plenty of well educated and intelligent cleaners.

I don't think anyone is dim. I do think that if you live in an area where there is high unemployment, as I do, there's precious little question of being able to factor sick leave into your rates. Unfortunately you get what you get, and fwiw the going rate isn't even anything like £10 an hour. I'd like to see a regularised system where domestic workers are well protected, which is the case elsewhere.

I've seen cleaners sacked for missing appointments due to sickness, I've seen cleaners lose income at short notice because their regular employees haven't informed them about their own holidays, and I've heard many other complains about unreasonable behaviour on the employers part. I don't see why thinking that is pretty reprehensible is nonsense, or patronising. I just think it's bullshit behaviour on the part of employers, who don't seem to give a crap about the person they hire, so long as the floor gets mopped at their convenience.

I suppose I break the mould then, reading the above posts.

I charge more than £10 ph.
I'm degree qualified.
I would far rather be a self employed cleaner than work in a preschool regardless of which earned the higher hourly rate.

I'm a deputy manager in a childcare settimg all that responsibility and qualifications I have worked hard for... £6.70 per hour and 50hours a week. No perks,no pension, sick pay ect.
Love it though best job in the world!

*Regardless of which commanded the higher hourly rate, not of which earned it!

So, how many hours a week would a cleaner/housekeeper work at one place before they should be employed and therefore entitled to holiday/sick pay?

I have just had my hours doubled from 6 to 12 per week, and told basically that if i dont do it they will get somebody else, but no holiday pay etc. Does this sound fair/right to you?

Personally I've always agreed paid holiday hours with self-employed people when they begin working for me, subject to a one month 'probation', which seems fair to me. The standard multiplier rate for hourly holidays is 5 and a half, I think. There's a calculator here

www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement/y/hours-worked-per-week

I don't think your change in circumstances sound very fair, but unfortunately there's not much you can do about it. As other posters are keen to stress, you're not entitled to any holiday or sick pay since you're self-employed.

Well, lets see.

When I was a cleaner (for Stagecoach) I was a key holder, I had to hold a chemicals licence, use specialised machinery, worked permanently unsocial hours (including weekends), and deal with hazardous substances of the human kind - mucus, vomit, urine, faeces, needles, blood....

For this I earned £7.45ph.

Why? Because very few people want to do it, and because cleaning up after the travelling public is a nasty, disgusting job - a hard job, that very few have the ability to do.

Your friend probably works harder than you do so therefore 10 an hour seems fair

Tapirbackrider - did you work nights, dance and sing while you cleaned and leave your little boy with a rather plump but lovely child minder who lived in a basement flat?

LEM

I work as a manager at a large nursery predominantly social services cases and get £7 an hour. I have a 2.1 degree as well. Your wage is very high for working with children.

LEM that'd be telling Unfortunately not!

I get paid less than both the cleaner and dog walker for the after school care I provide for two children. All are important services- and I have been a cleaner so I know how hard that can be. I just wonder why our society values those that clean their houses and walk their dogs more than those who look after arguably the most important things in their lives.

Tinpin

Society doesn't value cleaners more, it's a case of paying a sufficient amount to get people to do it, after all, it can be pretty disgusting being a cleaner.

The wages reflect the fact that few people want to clean up someone else's skidmarks, but lots of people like working with small children.

Unpleasant jobs pay more.

Jobs that let you have school holidays off to be with your own DCs pay less because everyone wants them.

I was told during the last Firefighters' strike that the reason Firefighters' pay is not very high is not because they are not valued, but because there are always loads and loads of people wanting to be firefighters. When the Fire Service starts struggling to recruit quality candidates because of the low pay - then the wages will go up.

Tinpin, i also wonder if it is because you tend to use cleaners and dogwalkers for fewer hours? There are plenty of jobs that are underpaid - was always thus. I recently walked my friends dog, i charged her £8 an hour, that was mates rates and im not insured etc. I am thinking of starting a dog walking business - i would have to charge more than £8 an hour to make it worth my while though as i would have to pay for advertising, insurance and would not be able to work straight hours so would be having a lot of time between clients where i wasn't earning. Much like a cleaner. I cleaned for my old employer before xmas, as a sort of favour - it was a highly responsible position though as I had keys the alarm code and the property i was cleaning was pretty high security, with lots of dangerous equipment. IT was bloody hard work though, that i had to do every evening when i was already knackered, i got £7 an hour.

I think that wages etc are one of the most unfair things - anything to do with care seems to be underpaid. It just doesn't ever seem that wages are a fair reflection of the work being done. Often the lower paid jobs are bloody hard work. For instance, i would imagine a care worker (One of the lowest pays jobs) works just as hard (probably harder) as someone who works in advertising but their wage would be a tiny fraction of what that person earns. It always makes my mind boggle.

People who look after small children are terribly underpaid imvho. However, a lot of the people who need childcare also earn low salaries. Everyone has seen the myriad threads complaining about the cost of childcare on here. The only solution is to have the cost of childcare massively subsidised ... but with what?

I have just left a job as a nursery assistant. I got paid £6.19 per hour for working ten hour days with up to 15 babies.

The cleaner got paid £6.25 per hour, for ten hours a week cleaning.

Not a huge difference I know, but it baffled me.