To not understand why teachers should object to performance related pay?

[Dolcelatte]

After all, it happens in most other sectors, so why should teachers be any different. I am not trying to be controversial and there will undoubtedly be others with a better understanding of the issues. However, I don't understand the objections in principle. Why shouldn't remuneration be dependent upon performance?

This thread wasn't started about Academy Headteachers. I know little about them.

I do know about data though, about performance related pay, about the history of teacher training and what it does and doesn't cover, and about the appalling lack of transparency, accountability and above all evidence-based practice in education.

I speak about what I know. I ask questions about what I don't know that interests me. I'm not sure why that is being used as a character assessment. Isn't what we all do.

I have integrity and honesty. I am happy to be judged by it. I believe with properly developed performance indicators based on decent data teachers will be too.

'He earns a decent salary - I'm not disputing that. But no matter how much he works, what hoops he jumps through, or how he performs it never translates into a fiscal reward'

But it could, and should with performance related pay. His 'worth' should be evidenced and clear.

But 2/3 of secondary schools are now academies - so how Academy heads behave is integral to everything about how PRP will work (or not)

Academies are private companies that answer to themselves, not to any LEA or even voters.
They are utterly unaccountable.
When an academy is deemed failing there is no LEA parachute team to sort it out
so if staff turnover rockets, tough on the kids
if PRP results in all the good staff leaving a school, tough on the kids

If alistron's DP was given his well earned pay rise, whose salary would you cut, because the budget share for the school will not alter?

Of course it is up to you. You are a teacher and your roll is to teach ALL of the children presented to you in your class, not just a select few that don't have any difficulties or barriers to overcome. Why should that child not have access to an education when they are already disadvantaged?

Starlight, it is not my job to come up with strategies for dealing with emotionally disturbed children, or those with SEN. Absolutely I will implement the ones suggested by the experts, and I will try things to help, but if you think I should be at home writing IEPs then you are sorely mistaken about what my job actually is. Like I said, I'm not a child psychologist nor a social worker, neither am I an expert in every single SEN going. I'm not trained in that, my degree is in maths. But the school pays people who are, to come up with strategies for me, and I will happily work with them and take their advice.

"You are a teacher and your roll is to teach ALL of the children presented to you in your class..."

Is that only when we are not writing up/looking at data and chasing children around the school trying to stop the predicted meltdowns?

'But 2/3 of secondary schools are now academies - so how Academy heads behave is integral to everything about how PRP will work (or not)'

Very few academies have HTs who are not qualified teachers. Therefore why are they such bad people to be in charge of performance related pay and set salaries. Surely of all people they are better positioned to do this?

Not ALL HTs are good I'll grant you, but then not all teachers are good either and the system isn't fair at the moment as was just pointed out with the hardworking DH not getting financial rewards due to arbitrary scaling.

All systems are open to corruption though I can't see why the proposed system is any more so. We already have academies after all.

'Starlight, it is not my job to come up with strategies for dealing with emotionally disturbed children, or those with SEN.'

It's your job to ensure that all of your children receive an adequate and appropriate education and that there are no barriers to them getting it. SEN and emotional behaviour in this context are your responsibility regardless of your expertise and it is your duty to make sure that the child is fully equipped to learn in your lesson whatever resources you need to source or rely upon.

Talk Schools are not poor. They have money. It isn't infinite of course and they need to prioritise, like well, everyone. I see one academy Headteacher decided to prioritise her own salary by £20k. Perhaps she could have shared with her good staff if she wants them to stay.

Also, If I ran a school I would be spending less on LA services and using half of it to buy in more efficient and effective independent ones, specifically wrt SEN and make savings that way.

It is a teacher's responsibility to make full use of the resources at his or her disposal. We are not magicians...whatever resources you need may not be at your disposal. In my experience they often aren't, I am afraid or there is such a time delay in accessing such resources that their impact is reduced.
Starlight what you talk about are ideal circumstances but they do not reflect reality, I am sorry to say.

It is a teacher's responsibility to make full use of the resources at his or her disposal. We are not magicians...whatever resources you need may not be at your disposal. In my experience they often aren't, I am afraid or there is such a time delay in accessing such resources that their impact is reduced.
Starlight what you talk about are ideal circumstances but they do not reflect reality, I am sorry to say.

Do you not think that this adherence to resource-led intervention rather than outcome-led would change with teachers working harder to get the right resources if their pfp counted on it?

My duty, Starlight? In one of my classes was two children who shouldn't have been in mainstream education, one who had recently attempted to commit suicide, another with severe anger management issues, another who was a young carer not coping with school, along with other children with various SEN.

Of course I worked my arse off to teach them maths. But did I have the resources to deal with all the other issues? Were they always fully equipped to access the lesson? Of course not.

And that was just one of my classes.

And no, it wasn't actually within my ability to source the resources needed for those children to overcome their various barriers to education.

Do you not think that this adherence to resource-led intervention rather than outcome-led would change with teachers working harder to get the right resources if their pfp counted on it?

Starlight, is that what it boils down to for you? That you think teachers are slackers?

In fact, it isn't even in my school's ability to overcome every child's barriers to education. The LA has refused to fund certain provisions, and funding for SEN support and TAs has been reduced due to severe budget cuts.

starlight

you said upthread that you didn't believe (paraphrased) PRP was outcome led

sky I don't think teachers are slackers. I think the majority work extremely hard. But I do think that some of the hard work isn't always as targeted as it could be and that attitudes such as nobles towards children with SEN and other difficulties are fairly prominent and I do hope that more focus on outcomes for each child will improve those attitudes.

I never said it shouldn't be outcome led. It absolutely MUST be. What would be the point of it not being?

'In fact, it isn't even in my school's ability to overcome every child's barriers to education. The LA has refused to fund certain provisions, and funding for SEN support and TAs has been reduced due to severe budget cuts.'

This is both illegal and untrue.

Go on, Starlight, what is my attitude towards children with SEN? Because if you are trying to suggest that I don't do my best by them, you can fuck right off.

'In one of my classes was two children who shouldn't have been in mainstream education, one who had recently attempted to commit suicide, another with severe anger management issues, another who was a young carer not coping with school, along with other children with various SEN.'

Why should they not be in mainstream school? They are as much a part of society as any other child and entitled to be educated in that environment.

Do you think the same thing about black boys?

starlight, are you calling me a liar now? The LA refused to fund a place at a special school for a child who had been assessed and accepted there.

And TA provision at my school has been reduced, there have been redundancies.

And my school has faced severe budget cuts.

So please do fuck off.

That's a outrageous accusation, Starlight.

'And no, it wasn't actually within my ability to source the resources needed for those children to overcome their various barriers to education.'

Who's ability was it?

i actually am at what you just said.

What is skyler?