To not understand why teachers should object to performance related pay?

[Dolcelatte]

After all, it happens in most other sectors, so why should teachers be any different. I am not trying to be controversial and there will undoubtedly be others with a better understanding of the issues. However, I don't understand the objections in principle. Why shouldn't remuneration be dependent upon performance?

If low blood sugar was causing violence in the corridor do you not think it is your JOB to ensure that the child receives help with this issue if it happens whilst on your watch?

this is what i mean: i completed an MA in Education- distinction. i use data to plan lessons, and have been judged outstanding. i make a significant contribution to wider school life both in teaching and learning, and extracurric.

my students reach their very ambitious targets.

someone flicks a light at the end of the corridor when my class is being let out/my student didn't eat breakfast and has low blood sugar, and has a meltdown

FAIL. i am a worthless sack of crap who should be removed from children for everybody's good.

"Really? So whose responsibility is it that the child has dropped blood sugar, too much noise/movement/lights flashing?

Surely not the childs?"

again no-one is apportioning fault with the child, the push to do so is entirely from you.

drop in blood sugar can onset quickly with no warning and can have varied effects such as shortened temper, hallucinations, blackouts and in extreme cases coma unless you can provide teachers with a way of predicting this then there is nothing they can do except react.

As for noise/movement/lights all of these can be ok one day for the child and not the next.

Can you give me a fool proof way of predicting what is good one day and not the nest?

i can do all kinds of interventions and maybe they don't work, because the child is in an abusive relationship.

or i do nothing, and it is successful, because the child's family hae now been housed permanently, and she finally has her own bedroom

starlight

From my classroom door (because of the layout) I can see less than 5 meters in any direction. If I hear a problem I will of course check to see and intervene if possible.

Some of my other colleagues can see all the way up and down the corridor I (again) would expect them to intervene.

But I cannot predict when these problems/issues will occur.

Chibi, how would you produce good outcomes for a child with emotional problems? Or would you just not?

i really hate this- either i am an incompetent buffoon or i am fucking up out of downright malice.

what if i did everything a reasonable person could do, and it still didn't work?

'Can you give me a fool proof way of predicting what is good one day and not the nest?'

Of course I can Boney. You must take data on it to establish patterns and predict behaviours with the explicit aim of reducing them.

It is the inability of many teachers to recognise these simple strategies that makes them so scared of performance related pay. They may believe that behaviour (both theirs and their students) can't be captured, and that teaching is some kind of magical event.

'what if i did everything a reasonable person could do, and it still didn't work?'

Then I would consider myself unqualified and untrained to deal with the situation and not rest until I had found someone who was to do with it. I would still consider the job my responsibility to ensure it was resolved even if I wasn't the one to personally do it.

'But I cannot predict when these problems/issues will occur.'

With data you could.

You could also insist that your classroom is not a suitable environment for the safety of your cohort if it isn't.

I Wouldn't want to be a teacher for all the tea in China. And I understand why teachers feel under attack from successive waves of change.

But I've seen nothing on this thread to set out why PRP couldn't work in principle, even if there are issues in practice to be resolved.

As I said above, teaching - like the civil service and the wider public sector - is way behind in proper performance management. Something like 17 teachers dismissed over the last decade for poor performance??

'Something like 17 teachers dismissed over the last decade for poor performance??'

I think that is the official figure. I would expect most teachers that are not up for the job make their own decisions to leave mostly.

Those who don't are often promoted into LA advisory roles, mostly SN in my experience.

Chidi, "What if I did everything a reasonable person could do, and still it didn't work."

That's the "how" bit of our PRP approach: if the "what" / outcome is below standard (eg I fail to deliver legislation to the time scale agreed at the start of the year) then the "how" is taken into account (eg I did all my stuff to a high, professional standard, but politics meant that my legislation didn't go through). So you have to demonstrate that you did all the right things, explored the alternatives etc, but circumstances were genuinely beyond your control.

i am bemused. when i started, i thought i was a pretty good teacher. i thought, with time, maybe i could even be a great teacher.

today, 10+ years in, i know i am a steaming pile of human garbage who deserves to be fired, and i will only ever get worse, not better.

Where do I get the data on what that child had for breakfast?
What they bought in the shop on the way to school?
What their friends gave them at break?

"You could also insist that your classroom is not a suitable environment for the safety of your cohort if it isn't."

What about the corridors, toilets, science labs, workshops, art rooms, Food tech room, canteen, computer rooms. All are different by necessity.

A good school will start bringing children in from year 6 to aid in the transition between schools, but it doesn't work for all children.

families
How many teachers left of their own accord? teachers being dismissed is not the whole story.

but circumstances can never be beyond my control. there is always something I should have known, or done. or i shoul have admitted my incompetence and found someone who co fix everything and not rest until they did.

i can't succeed, i can only fail to greater or lesser extent.

it is kind of funny, on paper i am what i meant to be a successful teacher. i hate my life.

I'm with chibi on this one.

It doesn't matter what I do, how hard I work, how much I care.

It is never ever enough.

It has driven me to anti depressants and a massive feeling of worthlessness.

There isn't any point working my guts out any more - it will never be enough.

Chibi.

It makes me so sad to see how undervalued teachers are in this country. And the relentless drive to apply private sector logic to the education sphere: what is that all about? It's not as though the private sector/free market has exactly covered itself in glory these past years.

((((((((((hugs chibi))))))))))

My DP works in an academy school where they allegedly have the freedom to reward good teachers. Every year he meets/exceeds his PM targets - he's yet to receive a pay rise or bonus. It's all a load of bollocks designed to pay teachers less and keep 'em under the cosh.

to you too, neverputasockinatoaster

starlight do you work in education? I do (not as a teacher) and I can assure you that goal posts are shifted term by term. Yes, good practice is informed by data, but what was good practice last week might not be good practice this week.

Working in education right now is like being in a dystopian sci fi film where there is no fixed reality.

'Where do I get the data on what that child had for breakfast?'

LOL. Is this a serious question?

If the child has blood sugar problems that are so extreme they cause violent outbursts in corridoors then I think you need to start by contacting the SENCO and schools nurse.

Should they receive a medical diagnosis that requires them to have eaten and you suspect they are not then again, you will need to refer.

Should the support plan/intervention require you to need data on their breakfast, give them a tick box or ask them at register

'Yes, good practice is informed by data, but what was good practice last week might not be good practice this week'

There is only good practice. Good practice can't change if the data is truly informing it, as the data itself tells you what good practice IS.

alistron I am currently at SAHM but involved in education in a voluntary capacity. My job prior was in education yes.