WORST customer care ever - Am I being unreasonable?

[dollybird1000]

Hello fellow MumsNetters,

I rarely post on her but I have experienced the most most outrageous customer care from a cafe. I'm still in disbelief.

Bear with me - its a long one -

Scenario:
So I regularly visited X cafe as lovely coffee/food and quiet ( so you'd think they would want to keep customers ) either just before I collect my 3yr daughter or after I drop her at nursery school.

So I would imagine I have spent at least £100 in there since the beginning of Term. Visting 2 to 3 times a week.

Yesterday I collected my daughter and 3 year olds being as they are .. as we got to the top of the road - near the cafe - she announced she needed a wee and was desperate.

I thought - no worries " quick we will just nip in my fav cafe and you can go and then maybe we will stay for a treat "

I went into the cafe and just happened to say " oo do you mind if she quickly nips to the toilet"

For the sake of clarity - I will be DD and the cafe BH:

The member of Staff I asked turned and said bluntly
BH: " No you have to be a customer"

DD: " But I am a customer , I come here regularly .. pls can she just go to the toilet shes desperate"

BH: " Well you will have to buy something then "

DD: " Are you serious ?"

BH: " Yes you have to buy something the toilet is only for customers now " again - NO sorry our any notion of understanding..

DD: " Are you telling me my 3 year old cannot use the toilet .. really ??.. I think your attitude is disgusting, I am shocked .. I am a customer.... er"

By the time I had to leave as my daughter HAD to go. I left saying

DD: " I want to speak to the manager"

BH: " Hes not here, he will be in the morning"

DD: " I am totally disgusted by your attitude and I will be back to complain"

BH : " you do that "

The staff was rude, blunt and totally got my back up - I was so so so angry on behalf of my daughter.

I had to take her out to wee on the street ( which is ok as Im not uptight about those things ) and would have just done that in the first place.

SO I went back this morning and spoke to the manager. I AM ASTOUNDED this place has ANY customers still- really-

me DD: " Hi , Im sure you have heard about an incident that happened yesterday regarding my daughter needing to use the toilet quickly - and the response I got and gave "

BH Manger : Bluntly " Its not a public toilet and yes I heard about it "

DD : shocked " um seriously you treat your cutomers like this ? Also this lady was quite rude in her mannner .. instead of saying " im really sorry my manager has told us strictly we cant allow non-current customers to use the toilet "

BH Manager : " well apparently YOU were rude and aggressive "

DD: " Yes I said the attitude was disgusting as I was furious , and your member of staffs manner was so abrasive "

BH Manager : " well its your word against hers "

DD: " I cant believe it, well you have definitely lost a customer "

Where upon the Manager just shrugged..

I am SO shocked. I have never in my life experienced such appalling attitudes towards customers or children.

If they had a sign up stating toilets for customers only OR if I kept going in after school and letting my daughter use the toilet and not buying anything OR if I had never been/use the cafe. Or if it was for me.. not a 3 year old.
I might ( might ) feel differently.

I am also very sad as I loved going there and was planning to take my mum there today to show how fab I thought it was.

I would also like to add - they only take cash , I had none on me but had planned to go to a cash point and return for a treat... although the staff did not know this.

I am posting on here for many reasons :

1. Am I going mad ? Was I wrong to think I could nip in for my daughter to use the toilet??
2. Has anyone else experienced this in cafes - and how did you feel ??

Comments / Replys Please .. !!

I totally get why you are so wound up about this op. If it was my local cafe that had done this I would also be upset. I go there regularly, I buy coffee, read their papers, exchange pleasantries about the weather - I feel I know them and they know me. They certainly know that I have a four year old with a fondness for bambichinos and a weak bladder

Odd response from so many to your post. Unless there are other circumstances that I'm unaware of YANBU at all. What mean gits! No, they don't HAVE to allow your child to use the toilet but what kind of person turns a toddler away when they are desperate for a wee?! As for the poster who berated you for not getting your DD to the toilet before she leaves nursery like "the rest of us do"! Crikey! The OP's Dd is 3, give her a break.

I probably wouldn't have gone ballistic and I may have even said "I am going to buy something in a minute" but still there response was awful.

Sorry, I mean their obviously.

I feel that there is a lot more to this story and we are missing it, if we didn't see the other thread. It sounds like, if we read what the OP originally wrote, then no one would be agreeing with her. Therefore, I come to the conclusion that although it isn't nice for a three year old to be denied, the OP caused the issue to escalate with their 'tantrum'.

I've been away for a bit, what is the milk thread?

OP

Start a campaign (or lend your support to the one run by Age UK) for more public toilets. There are elderly people out their who suffer from incontinence who don't go out, or don't drink enough and get dehydrated, with associated health risks) because there are not enough public loos.

I don't think the cafe is coming out all that well from this either, but then you could have avoided a confrontation.

Thank you for linking to that article Wit

As the article itself says;

"A large majority of customer reviews are no doubt genuine, and the sheer weight of numbers makes TripAdvisor a usually reliable source. You can continue to plan your next trip with the considerable help of like-minded travellers who provide free and fair comment. Don’t, though, make it your only source."

I'm not hailing Trip Advisor is the Holy grail of reviews- however there is a pattern of recent complaints centred around the staffs rudeness. Not the food, ambience or interior- the staff. It is logical to entertain the idea perhaps there is a grain of truth in it, especially as the reviews have only recently soured.

Perhaps the owner should consider the possibility that perhaps a new recruit, if indeed there is one, maybe needs a few helpful pointers in customer care as it ultimately the interest of his or her own business. Its a shame to see an otherwise liked café start to become known as unwelcoming.

I'm not hailing Trip Advisor is the Holy grail of reviews- however there is a pattern of recent complaints centred around the staffs rudeness. Not the food, ambience or interior- the staff. It is logical to entertain the idea perhaps there is a grain of truth in it, especially as the reviews have only recently soured

And the OP has recently been on a crusade around the internet ranting about this establishment not letting her daughter use their toilet.

I know it's hard to believe but there actually are people who get sufficiently exercised about things like this to register accounts on sites like Tripadvisor under multiple names and post reviews under all of them. I know because I know someone who does it.

I never actually look at Tripadvisor any more anyway because it just seems to be populated by self important cunts with axes to grind.

Also missed the first thread but small petty minded businesses like this really irritate me, I am sick to death of being told to support 'independent, local businesses' when they act like this.

I do think staff need to use their initiative - what on earth is the harm in letting a 3 year old (or anyone for that matter) use the toilet - being obnoxious and militantly sticking to the rules will only alienate customers and future customers.

I worked in customer services for years and one of my bug bears was having to deal with complaints when they escalated, just because someone couldn't (or wouldn't ) use their initiative. And yes, I have also worked in the hospitality industry for years. .

In many towns the LAs are closing all the public toilets and encouraging 'community use' of cafe/shop toilets etc. .

'Who the fuck holds a grudge against a coffee shop?' - actually I do, there is a nice looking coffee shop in the town where I live although I haven't been there; recently when volunteering at the Food Bank a girl came in for food, she mentioned she worked part time in this coffee shop - she was zero hours contract, earned peanuts, was not allowed a drink or anything to eat when working there, and the boss kept all the tips. So yes, I do hold a grudge against this coffee shop and will not use it.

Start a campaign (or lend your support to the one run by Age UK) for more public toilets

There are other toilets she could have gone to! I used to live in that area! She didn't have to go to that cafe.

Regardless of whether they were mean to not let the child use the loo, the OP's reaction is totally over the top in proportion to what happened.

I would never nip into a local cafe (apart from macdonalds or similar, where no-one notices) to use the toilet without expecting to buy something.

She clearly wasn't going to buy her dd a treat either, as her reply to the waitress says something different.

Really. What is hard to understand?

The toilet is for paying customers only.
This does not include someone who was a customer on a different occasion.
You was rude and confrontational. The member of staff was not.

The cafe are probably happy to loose a pita such as yourself.

Perhaps the complaints are all from the same person. Perhaps not.

Though, yes, posting this issue on multiple forums by the OP is a bit desperate.

I live in an area where the council offered financial incentives to cafes to let the general public use their toilets however after a year they stopped the incentives so the cafes here are very militant about them being customer only. I don't blame them either.

Something about this doesn't add up, neither the staff member or manager recognised the op and the op has gone ott if I was being sceptical I'd start to wonder if the op is a rival cafe.

Ragwort - yes, I worked in hospitality for years too. The scenario you describe is far from unusual these days - and funnily enough, being treated like that is, in my experience, exactly the reason most staff get to the point where they won't "use their initiative." Why do they care if the place folds? They can get another shit minimum wage job being shouted at by their supervisor anywhere.
Speaking for myself, being treated like a cunt by my boss always made me more likely, rather than less, to let anyone and everyone use the toilet; but I also know that having a mardy arsehole of a boss makes staff unhappy and affects customer service.

Having said all that, I still think that OP has overreacted to a bizarre degree over this.

Even though I think I would have been pissed off too Witsalmander's "outraged" links really made me laugh.

What does ODFOD mean by the way?

Something about this doesn't add up, neither the staff member or manager recognised the op

That's a good point. I honestly only ever heard "I COME HERE ALL THE TIME!!" from customers I had never seen before in my life.

wits - you are right, and it is very sad; I guess I was incredibly lucky as all the places I ever worked in were really well managed, (well, I was the manager ), we were actively encouraged to use our initiative, were paid good wages, plus generous meals and alcoholic drinks, tips were shared equally (with kitchen staff as well) so we were all happy to go 'the extra mile'.

This is all very interesting food for thought because DH and I are seriously thinking of getting our own coffee shop in the near future.

jauntyhat you asked in response to my earlier post 'is this not normal?' for a 4 year old (or 3 in the OPs case) to be able to wait for 10 minutes.

I have no idea if its normal or not I was just posting my own experience. I thought it was normal for a 3 year old to be able to wait, all the ones I know can, including one who has a kidney condition. And many four year olds are at school where they're expected to wait until break time. So based on that, I assumed that the average 3 year old could easily wait ten minutes if they had to.

I've no idea why you seemed to find it such a shocking thing to say. If your 4 year old can't wait, then they can't wait, I'm not arguing with that. But the idea that no 3 year old can wait for the loo just didn't make sense to me, when I have known so many who can.

I, on the other hand, find it much harder to wait for a loo than my kids do!

Thants

'The woman who served you sounds like a moron. '

But the op wasn't being served, she was asking or demanding a favour. If her wrath at the time, and the following day is anything like the wrath she has demonstrated on this thread then she was bu.

Rag - it is interesting, isn't it? Well I find the subject fascinating anyway, and I could (and do - my poor friends!) talk about it for hours.

How exciting that you're thinking of opening your own place! I don't think there's anything more valuable than having first-hand experience of working in hospitality if you're thinking of going it alone, really. There is no training course in the world that could teach you more than a month of busy weekend shifts! One thing I would encourage you to do though (if you could bear it) is to get a job in a place that looks as if it may not be particularly well managed. I feel that I learnt even more from the awful places I worked than I did from the good places - and witnessing bad practice really does make you recognise and appreciate good practice in a different way. Good luck! I hope you do it!

Thanks wit - actually I was thinking about getting some work experience in the place we are hoping to buy - although that might be too obvious. We went there 'incognito' for a coffee recently and were not at all impressed.

meant to say, I'm not saying all 3 year olds definitely can wait, what I mean is that plenty of them can, so the idea of waiting to get to another loo didn't seem that shocking to me.

If you go in so regularly didn't they recognise you?

I have worked in similar places and we were not allowed to let non paying customers use the toilet. YABU because you seem to be on some kind of crusade about this. I think you need a hobby, tbh.

Rag - are you kidding??! DO IT!! Apply for a job there! It'll give you a chance to get to know the customers and ask really subtle questions about what they like and what they don't! Gawd, you've made me all wistful: the second-to-last place I worked at had AMAZING potential but was just being strangled by an arsehole of a chef and a hideously unpredictable and irascible stoner of a proprietor. The other staff and I used to spend HOURS talking about what we'd do if we took over!!