To be fucked off that parents not vaccinating their child is risking my childs life?

[TheGlovesAreOrf]

I never judged them before. I never cared, if they chose not to vaccinate their child I always thought it was their choice and its not for me to have an opinion.
I never used to give it much more thought that that. I vaccinate mu children and what others do with theirs is none of my business.

Until I have a child who's immune system is often (but not always, steroid use) compramised. He is more likely to pick up bugs, and not deal with them very well.

He is also allergic to many things. I know tha egg allergy isnt usually an issue, but the MMR is cultivated on egg albumin. He is allergic to egg (anaphylactic) chicken meat, and feathers. The whole caboodle. Im pretty sure his tiny body wont like egg albumin either.

He's due to have this vaccine very very soon in hospital and Im absolutely shitting myself. Every time I remember it my stomach drops and my heart races.

Im genuinely thinking, what if he dies?

I cant get the vaccines done individually because the private clinics wont touch me with a barge pole.

I cant risk leaving it (Ive left it 18 months so far) because the area I live in has a very low MMR rate.

And that really, really angers me. Probably irrationally so.

I should be able to leave it. My son should be protected by societies use of the MMR.

Instead I either have to risk him getting an illness, or risk giving him this injection.

As if he hasnt been enough already.

I know IABU, but I just feel very resentful and angry towards those who choose not to vaccine right now.

More than prepared to be flamed for this.

Oh Duck - the last thing I want to do is scare anyone.

My mum had huge swelling and scarring at vaccine sites. So did I.
Anesthetic jabs don't work on me, or ds1 or DD. we all have excema or asthma. Loads of weirdy immune stuff. Ds2 was unlucky.

The thing is, DS is a bit of an immune crazed child too.

I blame a lot, if not all, of his current health issues on vaccinations in the first place. He is allergic to most foods, fabrics, creams, the weather.

Theres no history of allergies in my family.

But then, I watched my brother nearly die of chicken pox and it worries me that the same will happen to my son.

I will never feel that I have made the right decision. Whether I wait longer, dont give any more, give them now, give some but not others, give some later.

Theres pros and unbelievably frightening cons to all.

I was looking at him earlier, he said 'thank you' for the first time tonight rather than saying 'tee' as he usually does. I though, what if I vaccinate and it protects you from an illness but it undoes your whole life? Your words, your perception and relationship with the world? It would absolutely break my heart I would never be able to forgive myself.

Much like Id never forgive myself if I watched him suffer chicken pox in the way my brother did.

If an adult or teenager had an MMR, could they regress and become autistic?

Pagwatch :(
Shite isn't it, and then the massssive responsibility of vaccinating/not vaccinating/single dose jabs/ not mumps
I was beside myself, it was DD's cousin who was affected and I know it's really stooopid but dd looked so much like her cousin too and it made me feel even more at risk.
However, my decision to single jab was actually a fab one as one of the other girl cousins came along for the ride and wouldn't have had the m r at all if it weren't for me/us. So two missed mmr but 2 lots of m r

Whilst we are on this, I'm going to start a new thread in a mo as I got a report from her secondary school asking for consent for last school leaver diphtheria tetanus polio and it had her complete history of immunisations from birth .... And had her down as having HAD the mmr!!

Is there anyone here who has a good critical eye for what makes good statistics/research point me in the right direction for reading matter so I can make an actual informed (the best I can) decision as to how I'm going to move forward? LO2's father has a mild allergy history (hayfever and mild mild asthma as does his mother) and the mention of allergies/immune stuff putting children at greater risk really does have me worried.

Sorry, forgot to add: LO2 has an older half-sibling who was fully vaccinated and is now being assessed for ADHD type symptoms along with sensory issues that set her apart from her peers and is becoming more pronounced as she gets older.

Cherry I read something once, but it was a long time ago. Tbh I have just gone by other peoples experience and not wanting to take the risk.

Could you get the individual vaccines done?

YANBU. These should be societal decisions that everyone (if possible) adheres to. Like wearing a seatbelt.

The person you should be angry with is Andrew Wakefield who wrote the bogus MMR research in the first place, and is responsible for a massive increase in measles and mumps, luckily rubella doesnt seem to have reared it's ugly head again.

Vaccines are a lot safer than the diseases they protect against. It is a massive shame that children are dying from preventable diseases in a developed country, because people are anti the protection availiable.

Vaccinations are protection that our ancestors would have jumped at the chance to receive, and indeed current families in less fortunate countries dream of...but because we have forgotten what it is like to have a high child death rate, we a re lulled into a sense of security where we make choices which put our children, and also the most vulnerable such as people receiving chemotherapy etc at risk of some really serious diseases.

If you are anrti-vac, please look up the possible effects of the diseases you are not protecting your children against before you make your choice, or make an apppointment to discuss the risks and benefits with your GP. Then at least you know you are making an informed choice rather than one fuelled by internet rubbish.

unfortunately there are a lot of things that are being mentionned that could easily have no real link with vaccination. There are a lot of unnvaccinated children who have ADHD or Autism.

This article is useful, but unfortunately you have to pay for the whole thing, however the little blurb you can read explains the risks of some of the diseases being vaccinated against.

Anaphylactic reactions are scary but very rare.

www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e2434

I am with you OP and feel very sorry for what you go through with your child's health.

Of course there are plenty of chikdren with asd who didn't have the MMR.

That is not in dispute.

Of course I hope you are not suggesting that I am mistaken in my assessment of the regression my son suffered aged 20months and his subsequent asd/anxiety/gut issues etc.

QOD
Yes. The hardest bit is deciding what to do with DD.

I am of course damned if I do and damned if I don't.

No one really gives a shit about what happened to DS2 except a few kind souls and the people who know him. Society doesn't care. I had to give up my career to care for him.
Yet I come on here and get jeering, goady, aggressive stuff posted by people who just enjoy being morally outraged because it's a laugh.

A poster once started a thread describing unvaccinated children as loaded guns.
She thought it was smart and hard hitting. I thought it made her a twat.

My DD has all the issues that come with poor immunity and the life complications you get from having a severely disabled brother and one smart arse on the Internet talks about her as if she should be shipped off o an Island. Actually another poster posted that too.

ovenbun - scary doesn't even begin to cover what it's like to watch your child crash, be blue lighted to hospital, go into cardiac arrest and end up fighting for their life in ICU...fortunately it's only ~1 in a million who react that way (but that doesn't help the guilt about being the one who's decision put your child in that state).

I agree with getting professional advice, especially of your child has risk factors in their family history/has had bad reactions to vaccines in the past/has a history of allergies. Beware of some professional who seem determined to vaccines at all costs, a good GP will discuss your concerns openly and not fob you off with a verbal pat on the head and 'there, there dear, you're worrying about nothing'.

I care, Pag. None of these decisions for anyone from either side of the debate are easy. I don't honestly think any parent who had already had a child have an adverse reaction to a vaccine that caused long term issues could be blamed for thinking about not vaccinating subsequent siblings - that's just the opposite side of the OP's coin - and how much risk someone is willing to take is a highly individual decision.

Some people just aren't able to put themselves in someone else's shoes...that's their loss, not yours.

Don't worry pag - only this morning I've been told my assessment of what happened to ds1 (relevant of course for siblings) is 'imaginary' and equivalent to believing that a vaccination reaction has occurred due to eating left over guacamole. This sort of opinion is usually espoused by someone who isn't even aware that there's no such thing as 'autism' (it's autisms for those wondering).

If someone is in a difficult place decision wise I would advise investigating family history, reading everything you can about current research & emailing researchers for their opinions or to be pointed in the direction of further research. Even better if you can attend conferences & talk to the researchers but that's not always possible. Then make your decision. Don't be guilted into anything by people who have strong opinions but aren't actually risking anything with their child - because if the shit hits the fan I guarantee they'll be the first to clear off.

Cherry - I have your pm - but my phone doesn't open them properly - will look and reply later when on computer!

Yes, that's so true Saintly.
Parents have to just make the right decision for themselves because ultimately, for all the chest beating, the only people affected are, well, those affected.
My ds had an adverse reaction because I dutifully turned up on time and on schedule for his vaccinations. The 'anti-vacc' thing irritates me.
If I was fricking anti-vacc I wouldn't be in this situation.

I agree Cherry. I think that gets forgotten.
That because of ds2s experience my DD is now unvaccinated and that too brings risks.
I sympathise with the op because to feel backed into a corner makes us all feel vulnerable.

I do wish I had your brain though Saintly. I really do.

I have oodles of common sense but zero science. I would read more but it's like a whole other language

Ha plenty of people on here would disagree with that pag.

TBH though we're still a number of years away from having the answers we need anyway. DS1's lovely neurologist told me to ask him again in 10-20 years and he'd be able to answer my questions - so ultimately you just have to do the best you can on incomplete knowledge.

What is it about the combined MMR that causes autism? Is that still a risk with the individual vaccines? From the AW theory that I read, he said that the individual vaccines should be the alternative.

See I don't necessarily worry myself about the mmr VACCINE, for me it was giving her 3 things right when she was at her maximum risk of chicken pox, slapped cheek, any of the many many childhood illnesses. It's giving them so many potentially serious diseases at the same time right when she was mixing with children that were pustulating germ bags

That was along my line lf thinking too.

It is a massive shame that children are dying from preventable diseases in a developed country, because people are anti the protection availiable.

The complications from these diseases can be devastating I agree, but dying? Where did you hear that?

Well some babies have died from whooping cough but it is agreed by pretty much everyone that the whooping cough outbreak is due to waning immunity of the vaccination ( and the change to aP). Or possibly a mutation.