To be fucked off that parents not vaccinating their child is risking my childs life?

[TheGlovesAreOrf]

I never judged them before. I never cared, if they chose not to vaccinate their child I always thought it was their choice and its not for me to have an opinion.
I never used to give it much more thought that that. I vaccinate mu children and what others do with theirs is none of my business.

Until I have a child who's immune system is often (but not always, steroid use) compramised. He is more likely to pick up bugs, and not deal with them very well.

He is also allergic to many things. I know tha egg allergy isnt usually an issue, but the MMR is cultivated on egg albumin. He is allergic to egg (anaphylactic) chicken meat, and feathers. The whole caboodle. Im pretty sure his tiny body wont like egg albumin either.

He's due to have this vaccine very very soon in hospital and Im absolutely shitting myself. Every time I remember it my stomach drops and my heart races.

Im genuinely thinking, what if he dies?

I cant get the vaccines done individually because the private clinics wont touch me with a barge pole.

I cant risk leaving it (Ive left it 18 months so far) because the area I live in has a very low MMR rate.

And that really, really angers me. Probably irrationally so.

I should be able to leave it. My son should be protected by societies use of the MMR.

Instead I either have to risk him getting an illness, or risk giving him this injection.

As if he hasnt been enough already.

I know IABU, but I just feel very resentful and angry towards those who choose not to vaccine right now.

More than prepared to be flamed for this.

You clearly aren't alone in your ideas about 'healthy' children. I guess it's just a shame about the collateral damage that approach causes.

I was under the impression that Wakefield was studying the effects of MMR on a sub-set of already autistic children and that the tabloids twisted this to mean, "MMR causes austism"

It is so frustrating that my son has these bowels issues and is being denied medical treatment because no HP wants to admit that Wakefield wasn't wrong about everything, ever. And that any subsequent research based on his theories are to be discounted. Or that's how it seems to me

You asked the question about TB yet seem to be in possesion of an answer. Newborns and vunerable children are much more likely to be collateral damage in an area with a low take up like Swansea

Not that I am unaware that regression following MMR does happen. I have been here since 2005 and have read many harrowing accounts from rightly upset and well-respected posters who are most certainly not tabloid-believers.

I dont disbelieve it at all either

Here is the best analogy on the issue I heard recently recently. vaccinating is akin to playing Russian Roulette with your child's health, not vaccinating is akin to playing Russian Roulette after putting more bullets into the gun.

I imagine the that smallpox vaccine caused "collateral damage". I suppose in the bigger picture that blighting the lives of a handful of individuals was worth it to save the lives of millions.

"It is so frustrating that my son has these bowels issues and is being denied medical treatment because no HP wants to admit that Wakefield wasn't wrong about everything, ever. "

That is awful. There are children with bowels issues who aren't autistic and its perfectly possible for an autistic child to have medical conditions that aren't related to autism.

I sympathise, OP. I think that people who have a valid medical reason not to vaccinate ought to be protected by herd immunity.

I was concerned about the MMR when I had my first child. So I did my research, spoke to knowledgeable doctors, and the evidence was overwhelmingly that it should be done. So two of my three children are fully vaccinated, and the third will be when she's old enough.

If I were in your position, I would be very upset about the many parents who don't do any research and don't vaccinate. That doesn't mean that I think everyone who doesn't vaccinate is wrong, just that I think they have a duty to base their decision on careful consideration of the facts (including individual medical history).

whizz - make an appointment with your GP. I believe that most of the routine vaccines can be repeated before - so there's no reason for the nurse to refuse. (DS1 had to have the six-in-one vaccine repeated, because one of the elements had not given him immunity to that particular disease - the consultant said it didn't matter about him getting a 'double dose' of the other five elements.) The GP will want to get the vaccination done, I imagine, it's good for their figures.

Some parents are probably scared shitless after the links to autism caused by the MMR ... They too have their choice

Yes, there probably are parents that are genuinely scared because of the 'link' between MMR and autism. I know it worried me when I had to make the choice well before Wakefield had been discredited.

But there is an alternative to MMR, you just have to pay for it. I think parents who would vaccinate against MMR if they were offered singles for free but who don't vaccinate at all if they have to pay are highly irresponsible.

I agree that no one should be forced to vaccinate and there are many valid reasons for deciding against vaccination. But there isn't a valid reason to leave your child unprotected against measles when you are happy with all the other vaccines, and you could just pay for the single.

Reallytired it is awful. In our case we didn't have any documented proof of how ill DS was because he wasn't admitted to hospital. He couldn't even keep water down for weeks and we were changing sheets five times a night. Luckily he was breastfed and this sustained him otherwise he'd have been on a drip and probably sedated too.

All they have is my word that he was eating a wide range of foods, having normal bowel movements and is now still in nappies aged six. I am careful not to mention the timing of this illness but because he is autistic, well... Wakefield was struck off, no link, no investigation.

AnaisHellWitch - just because there isn't a statistical link between two events, doesn't mean that in occasional situations they are not related. Anyone can have a bad reaction to any medication (or food) with devastating consequences, it doesn't mean that a blanket statement of 'MMR causes autism' is any more correct than 'cheese causes anaphylaxis'...it just means the the unfortunate person in situation x/y/z had that particular reaction to that particular food/med/allergen/whatever.

Any scientist worth the title will acknowledge that anomalous/out-laying results occur, they may not indicate a 'statistically significant' trend but it doesn't stop them existing. I really hope you manage to get appropriate support for your dc.

The history of vaccines is littered with disasters and it is hard for parents to decide what is best. If you watched this video then you would realise its not beyond the realms of impossibliy that every vaccine carries a risk. At least we don't have to worry about monkey brain being injected into our kids!

Measles can cause brain damage similar to autism. A rare complication of mumps is mengentitis which also can cause profound brain damage. I feel that vaccination is the less of two evils. If we could wipe out these diseases then there would be no need to take the risk of vaccination. However we need herd immunity worldwide to make that happen.

Andrew Wakefield's research was a poor standard and its sad that a possible link between vaccine damage and autism can not be properly investigated. Wakefield did not prove a link, but that doesn't mean there is no link. I suppose it is possible that children with autism are more suspectible to live measles. Afterall why is it that some children died from measles where as others just shook it off easily?

Thank you Andro

Measles is interesting. Almost as soon as DS had recovered from the D&V he came out in spots, feverish and the G.P told me that he had a "measles-like illness" and should stay at home for a fortnight.

He had had the live vaccine maybe six weeks previously.

I had Rubella as a child, vaccine at fourteen and before ttc both my children aged late twenties and mid-thirties had dangerously low immunity. Perhaps I just don't respond positively to vaccines and DS is the same, hence the "measles-like" illness

Heartinaspade do you have any experience of vaccine reaction?

I'm guessing not from your above post.

I'm happy for you.

Please don't patronise parents about whom you know nothing and their children about whom you know nothing.

The vast majority of children who react badly to vaccines react at the time - usually with fever, rashes, high pitched crying, swelling at injection sight, upset sleep, breathing issues.

When you take your healthy baby to get a jab and they have all the above reactions AT THE TIME OF AND IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING INJECTION and then proceed to go downhill over a period of weeks and are never the same again, it seems likely that your child suffered a vaccine reaction. Why don't you tell me what did happen to my child and to Sunshine's child if you are so sure that you know that they didn't react to a vaccine?

What does your magical insight tell you about my daughter? What was your magical insight coming up with whilst I was rushing my daughter to hospital and praying that she didn't die in my arms?

I'm guessing your magical insight would tell you it is all a coincidence....

Mine was telling me she likely had a reaction to an invasive medical procedure.

Heartinaspade

You are coming across as extremely arrogant & ignorant about autism. I suspect you don't even realise there's no such thing as 'autism' (it's autisms). I certainly know children whose doctors do believe MMR may well have been the trigger hit regression in their particular child. These are doctors who are willing to listen to parents (tbh most senior doctors I have met have been open minded & happy to give an opinion) .

Sunshine - I'm sorry you are having difficulties accessing treatment for your child. I do think that slowly paediatricians etc are becoming more aware of the gut issues & hopefully that will filter through to gastroenterologists. 12 years ago ds1's paediatrician rolled his eyes at us when we talked about gf diets, a couple of years ago his neurologist asked whether we'd ever considered giving it a try. Slowly, slowly attitudes are changing. Not much help when your son is in pain & needs help now I know xx

The fact that symptoms began 'within a couple of weeks' of vaccination DOES NOT MEAN they were CAUSED BY vaccination.

Equally, the doctors quite possibly don't know for certain that they were NOT caused by vaccination. Who is to say that her dc wasn't neurologically vulnerable and a particular vaccination was one stimulus too far at that time? Permanent brain damage )for example) is acknowledged as a possible, very rare complication of some vaccines by the CDC (and compensation for brain injury has been paid out as a result).

I hate these threads because you get the non-vaxers under emphasising the symptoms of X disease and you get vaxers over emphasising symptoms of X disease. There is never any middle ground nor any shift on these threads. Same old, same old and it goes round and round to the point where I end up disagreeing with everyone because it's all the same crap.

Incidentally, as a immunosuppressed person, I am not too worried about most of the above mentioned disease and more worried about the every day illness that seem to knock me for six.

But you don't have to worry so much about them because most people vaccinate if that dies off you'd be in trouble

I don't think it's that likely rates will suddenly drop. Vaccination rates are the highest they have ever been in the UK. Far higher than they were before the MMR concerns were raised (especially if you add in the single jabs - then you are pretty much as 95%).

I did make that point about everyday illnesses upthread candy. TBH everyone I know who has had to deal with immune issues (including my own child) has had problems from either everyday illnesses or viruses that usually are carried harmlessly by all of us.

My mum is deaf in one ear from measles (& was very ill with it) so our decision to not vaccinate the younger children wasn't made under the assumption that measles is only ever mild (albeit my own case was). Unfortunately some of us live with situations that are not straightforward.

2tried. They may vaccinate against them but that doesn't mean that their immunity won't wane. Look at the increase in WC cases in recent years. Now they've found that immunity can start to wane in as little as 1 year!

So are you arguing that we shouldn't bother with vaccination? Because that seems to be the implication - that the risks outweigh the benefits.

I completely agree op, I think vaccination should be mandatory unless ofc someone has an allergy like your son. It is completely ridiculous that parents are allowed to put their own children and everyone else at risk.