to think that UK schools should try and follow the Japanese model a little more?

[FreckledLeopard]

So, according to the OECD, "England is the only country in the developed world where the generation approaching retirement is more literate and numerate than the youngest adults."

Guardian Link

Conversely, the Japanese are at the top of the table with the best literacy and numeracy skills of the OECD.

I volunteer in schools in 'deprived' boroughs as part of the Corporate Responsibility agenda at work. I see primary school (Yr 3) pupils who cannot read, write or count to ten using their fingers. Very few children know their times tables. I appreciate these are the most shocking examples, but it's certainly not uncommon for teenagers not to be able to recall times tables instantly, or to be able to do basic mental calculations. On the other hand, my 97 year old grandmother who died a few years ago could immediately give you the answer to any times table question posed, had immaculate spelling, handwriting and grammar, yet left school aged 14 in 1928.

I know that the argument is put forward that rote learning stifles creativity and critical thinking. Yet if a child cannot read, write or spell accurately, what use is critical thinking to them if they can't get any thoughts down on paper? Similarly, what is wrong with rote learning if it gives pupils a basic grasp of mathematics that will provide them with at least the basic ability to get through life (understanding budgets, shopping, simple percentages etc)?

Surely rote learning, frequent testing and an emphasis on knowing the basics well would serve pupils in good stead and not allow children to fall through the gaps as they currently do? So, AIBU to wish that British schools would try and emulate the Japanese/South Korean model a little more?

[thebody]

oooh love the rods. the pretty colours. see I am crap.

[ivykaty44]

I was talking tithe

I really think math needs to be split up into different subjects so that people understand that they may struggle with one type of maths but not all types.

Once someone thinks they are useless they switch off 30% of their brain

[JustinBsMum]

Thank goodness we did rote learning of tables as I have a crap memory and it made sure everyone knew them by the time they moved to secondary. I was shocked when my DCs were to learn them at home, I made sure they knew them (nag, nag), but am sure many parents weren't as persistent or didn't have the time.

[Toadinthehole]

Or copy Australia - not poor, but unequal and multi-ethnic, like Britain.

It's a pity NZ (where I live) wasn't in the study. It normally comes out highly on these studies, although some while back I was cited a PIRLS/TIMMS study in which it didn't come out too flash. DW (now in yr 3) is expected to learn all times tables 1-12 and up to 12. She probably has to spend on average 30 minutes a school night on homework, which I regard as a downright imposition.

I find when comparing Brits to Kiwis, Kiwis tend to have better basic literacy and numeracy, but less general knowledge in the arts, humanities etc; and I wonder whether this is a reflection of their education system

[friday16]

but 13 shillings to the Guinea

21 shillings to the guinea, in fact. 1 pound plus 1 shilling.

[Talkinpeace]

sorry, my error.
When I moved to the UK, Mum carefully learned old money and started to teach me. Once she'd got the hang of it they decimalised!

[northlight]

I remember being haunted by this story at the time.

www.aintnowaytogo.com/japSchl.htm

Seriously can you imagine what would happen if a British schoolchild died in this way? A death sentence for being late, once. Would you want any child of yours to be subjected to the kind of school regime described here?

As to the literacy rate, some countries score highly because literacy in the older population is so low. Also a Japanese poster in the Guardian forum said that the Japanese definition of literacy was very different to ours. Only a very small percentage of people memorise the thousands of characters needed to be critically and analytically literate. The rest are functionally literate.

In Scotland we are following the example of Canada, Australia and New Zealand in maths and literacy. Knowing the times tables, the addition and subtraction bonds to 20 and how place value works are priorities but the whole emphasis is on using this knowledge to deepen children's understanding and confidence with number. Children are being taught how to split, compartmentalise, round and adjust numbers in order to do sums by mental processes. This is much better than the rote learning and rigid algorithms of my childhood.

[ivykaty44]

Japan has three times the suicide rate of the Uk's already high suicide rate

[ivykaty44]

gives further figures on child suicide

[TheArticFunky]

My eldest child is in year 5 at a state primary. The education he is receiving is far superior to the education that I received (1977-1989). The maths is 2-3 years ahead and he has been covering grammar since the start whereas grammar was barely touched on when I was at school.

Given that standards in schools have improved and they most certainly have you would expect our youngsters to have higher literacy and numeracy levels but they don't. When I left school if you reached the magic C in English and Maths you were actually quite clever but now I see school leavers with grade C in English and their spelling is appalling. Perhaps grade inflation is the problem?

[Toadinthehole]

Actually, the guinea wasn't always 21 shillings (or one pound and one shilling). The guinea was a gold currency, whereas the pound sterling was silver, and their relative values fluctuated depending on the price of gold and silver. I suspect their relative values were fixed in the early 19th century when gold one pound coins (better known as sovereigns) replaced 1, 2 and 5 guinea gold coins. Beautiful coins, those guineas.