to think that UK schools should try and follow the Japanese model a little more?

[FreckledLeopard]

So, according to the OECD, "England is the only country in the developed world where the generation approaching retirement is more literate and numerate than the youngest adults."

Guardian Link

Conversely, the Japanese are at the top of the table with the best literacy and numeracy skills of the OECD.

I volunteer in schools in 'deprived' boroughs as part of the Corporate Responsibility agenda at work. I see primary school (Yr 3) pupils who cannot read, write or count to ten using their fingers. Very few children know their times tables. I appreciate these are the most shocking examples, but it's certainly not uncommon for teenagers not to be able to recall times tables instantly, or to be able to do basic mental calculations. On the other hand, my 97 year old grandmother who died a few years ago could immediately give you the answer to any times table question posed, had immaculate spelling, handwriting and grammar, yet left school aged 14 in 1928.

I know that the argument is put forward that rote learning stifles creativity and critical thinking. Yet if a child cannot read, write or spell accurately, what use is critical thinking to them if they can't get any thoughts down on paper? Similarly, what is wrong with rote learning if it gives pupils a basic grasp of mathematics that will provide them with at least the basic ability to get through life (understanding budgets, shopping, simple percentages etc)?

Surely rote learning, frequent testing and an emphasis on knowing the basics well would serve pupils in good stead and not allow children to fall through the gaps as they currently do? So, AIBU to wish that British schools would try and emulate the Japanese/South Korean model a little more?

[Toadinthehole]

Actually, the guinea wasn't always 21 shillings (or one pound and one shilling). The guinea was a gold currency, whereas the pound sterling was silver, and their relative values fluctuated depending on the price of gold and silver. I suspect their relative values were fixed in the early 19th century when gold one pound coins (better known as sovereigns) replaced 1, 2 and 5 guinea gold coins. Beautiful coins, those guineas.

[TheArticFunky]

My eldest child is in year 5 at a state primary. The education he is receiving is far superior to the education that I received (1977-1989). The maths is 2-3 years ahead and he has been covering grammar since the start whereas grammar was barely touched on when I was at school.

Given that standards in schools have improved and they most certainly have you would expect our youngsters to have higher literacy and numeracy levels but they don't. When I left school if you reached the magic C in English and Maths you were actually quite clever but now I see school leavers with grade C in English and their spelling is appalling. Perhaps grade inflation is the problem?

[ivykaty44]

gives further figures on child suicide

[ivykaty44]

Japan has three times the suicide rate of the Uk's already high suicide rate

[northlight]

I remember being haunted by this story at the time.

www.aintnowaytogo.com/japSchl.htm

Seriously can you imagine what would happen if a British schoolchild died in this way? A death sentence for being late, once. Would you want any child of yours to be subjected to the kind of school regime described here?

As to the literacy rate, some countries score highly because literacy in the older population is so low. Also a Japanese poster in the Guardian forum said that the Japanese definition of literacy was very different to ours. Only a very small percentage of people memorise the thousands of characters needed to be critically and analytically literate. The rest are functionally literate.

In Scotland we are following the example of Canada, Australia and New Zealand in maths and literacy. Knowing the times tables, the addition and subtraction bonds to 20 and how place value works are priorities but the whole emphasis is on using this knowledge to deepen children's understanding and confidence with number. Children are being taught how to split, compartmentalise, round and adjust numbers in order to do sums by mental processes. This is much better than the rote learning and rigid algorithms of my childhood.

[Talkinpeace]

sorry, my error.
When I moved to the UK, Mum carefully learned old money and started to teach me. Once she'd got the hang of it they decimalised!

[friday16]

but 13 shillings to the Guinea

21 shillings to the guinea, in fact. 1 pound plus 1 shilling.

[Toadinthehole]

Or copy Australia - not poor, but unequal and multi-ethnic, like Britain.

It's a pity NZ (where I live) wasn't in the study. It normally comes out highly on these studies, although some while back I was cited a PIRLS/TIMMS study in which it didn't come out too flash. DW (now in yr 3) is expected to learn all times tables 1-12 and up to 12. She probably has to spend on average 30 minutes a school night on homework, which I regard as a downright imposition.

I find when comparing Brits to Kiwis, Kiwis tend to have better basic literacy and numeracy, but less general knowledge in the arts, humanities etc; and I wonder whether this is a reflection of their education system

[JustinBsMum]

Thank goodness we did rote learning of tables as I have a crap memory and it made sure everyone knew them by the time they moved to secondary. I was shocked when my DCs were to learn them at home, I made sure they knew them (nag, nag), but am sure many parents weren't as persistent or didn't have the time.

[ivykaty44]

I was talking tithe

I really think math needs to be split up into different subjects so that people understand that they may struggle with one type of maths but not all types.

Once someone thinks they are useless they switch off 30% of their brain

[thebody]

oooh love the rods. the pretty colours. see I am crap.

[thebody]

I was in primary school in the 70s and learnt my tables. can so them now. still utterly utterly crap at maths though.

[SilverApples]

'As a unit of area, a square perch (the perch being standardized to equal 16½ feet, or 5½ yards) is equal to a square rod, 30 1?4 square yards (25.29 square metres) or 0.00625 acres, or 1/160 acre.
There are 40 square perches to a rood (A rectangular area with edges of one furlong (10 chains i.e. 40 rods) and one rod respectively), and 160 square perches to an acre (an area one furlong by one chain (i.e. 4 rods)).

And today's youth find the decimal system complicated!

[SilverApples]

Are we talking lake or river?

[ivykaty44]

silver apples - how many perches in a an acre?

[SilverApples]

Let us not forget chains, rods, poles and perches.
Or farthings and ha'pennies.

[Talkinpeace]

but 13 shillings to the Guinea

[SilverApples]

12 inches to the foot as well.

[Talkinpeace]

Old money was 240 pence to the pound .... so knowing 12s was essential to work out shillings (12 pence)

[WilsonFrickett]

Thanks for that LRD - about the 12 times table. I always wondered why we stopped at 12, not 10 or somewhere else

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

[tedmundo]

Sorry LRD. I am giving you classroom flashbacks aren't I?!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Oh, god ... we had to do that at school.

[tedmundo]

Off topic slightly .. An easy way to do your 9 x table on fingers..

Put both hands up in front of you palm facing you. If the sum is 6x9 put down the 6th finger (so the pinkie on your right hand in this eg). The number of fingers to the left of the down finger is your tens and the number of fingers on your right is the units. In this example 54. For 2x9 put down the second finger etc.

On topic .. My best friend is Japanese married to a Brit and they now live here in the UK and are in no rush to get back to japan to educate their boys there. She once described a typical school day over there. Long and very academic.

[Takver]

Actually, looking at the Guardian article again, I wonder if we should really be investigating educational systems in Estonia - a relatively poor and relatively unequal country that still has good outcomes in both maths and literacy.