What's that thing people do where they goad you and goad you until finally they get a reaction...?

[TattyDevine]

Long story short I have just opted out of a social situation where a couple of male friends were goading me, I was trying to ignore their silliness (they were a bit drunk) and eventually I just said, look, would you think it would be acceptable to be saying that about one of your family members to which you then get "don't twist my words" "we are only trying to wind you up" etc etc.

(For a bit of background they were making jokes about there being no such thing as rape in uni and how they are all gagging for it and how you should be able to buy rohypnol in the student union café. This conversation came about because I mentioned how pleased I was with the security of my 19 year old niece's uni accommodation)

I know there are various things called stonewalling and stuff but does this type of scenario as described above, picking and picking and picking until finally they get a rise then blaming it on you for being oversensitive, does that have a word? Or are they just c*nts, lol.

I could do with some help actually in how to manage these two "friends" and I know there is relationships but I'm all about the traffic right not. Go on Mumsnet sisterhood, give me some strength, my darling husband wants me to go back to this holiday site we are all staying and face these two sexist drunken oiks

Oh and it's not 'gaslighting'.

Goading & baiting are the closest I can think of - but actually, just acting like revolting fucking idiots, without a brain between them.

One of these two oiks is not too bad a person generally - he wasn't the one who presented these views and his amusement was more focused on my predictable distaste of the topic rather than the topic itself. He's a generally good person, stay at home dad to his 3 sons, faithful husband, dedicated hands on father. I think it shocked me the most that he was chortling away to be honest and I wonder if he'd had so much booze that he barely even registered the topic or perhaps his laughter was nervous...

The other one, however, featured on my "potential arsehole, proceed friendship with caution" list 6 years ago when I first met them. I put my arsehole radar up. I couldn't put my finger on why. He and his wife fight constantly, he doesn't always treat her with respect, he speaks to her mother like she's dirt and I wouldn't be surprised if he is unfaithful to her (I won't go into why I think that right now). This is the trouble with groupy friendship groups, you can't pick and choose everyone. That said, I don't generally have much to do with him, its normally his wife we see the most of. He turns up at the occasional evening party or Christmas thing but on this particular occasion he came along. So I don't really want to let his shit behaviour be the deal breaker that busts up a whole group and ruins everyone's holiday. I will be driving back later today but just need to mentally prepare myself for my arrival and the apology that my husband has told me they want to make, and want to make sure that if the apology includes silly disclaimers I can shoot them down without losing face or seeming too much like a humourless bitch.

Chipping that's the thing that really pissed me off - I did actually say that. I said "so when xxx goes to Uni she is fair game is she, gagging for it" and he said "don't twist my words!". Well, that's not actually twisting words at all. They were his own words that when applied to his own daughter, suddenly sounded rather distasteful. But rather than admit that and say "actually, I see what you mean, I apologise" he did his best to turn it round so it was all my fault

And your right, its not really gaslighting (just read up) though for some reason that was the word I was looking for. It would potentially be gaslighting if during our next conversation they try and make out they didn't say that or tell me I'm quoting them out of context or that black is white, or that I imagined the whole thing, etc. Yes.

Have spoken to my husband this morning, he is 100% behind me. He feels helpless for not having done anything much last night, having missed the start and the context (funny how they waited till he was out the room!) and in his own haze of beer and fatigue didn't know whether or not I was being stroppy or they were being arseholes and then only heard their side of it. I would have appreciated it if he had come to see me, and sent them home, but he genuinely thought I was asleep I think. Now he's clear about events (I sent him an email) he's pretty disappointed and wants to lay down some boundaries.

"You've succeeded. You've also proved your own ignorance. If it's so funny, why aren't you laughing?"

I know you have these good female friends but I wouldn't be looking to repeat evenings like this to be honest.

I did have a friend once who used to go away on a lot of trips, came back once talking about his time in a brothel in Beijing: another bloke was with him, his wife was there and prided herself on being 'fine' with it (he told her he hadn't had sex, just massage), and that - along with what felt like several hundred other red flags - really tipped the balance for me and I just never had dinner with them, drink with them again. I saw her in the daytimes.

So, you've got 2 guys there (your husband and the other bloke) who just let this one run his mouth off and make you the subject of his goading and either joined in or pretended it wasn't happening?

Their face-saving in front of a mouthy male was more important than either defending the concept of rape being not joke-worthy or stepping in to stop him upsetting you?

Oh so that's when he said 'Don't twist my words'. I see. So, only 'other girls' are gagging for it, not his princess - how utterly fucking predictable.

Even then I wouldn't say it was 'gaslighting'. I haven't had enough coffee to explain the difference, but there is one.

I would definitely speak to both the wives to let them know what was said, so they don't just say that you were being oversensitive to a bit of leg pulling.

I can see why it's hard and I would want to let them know it was totally unacceptable, but I would also want to 'seemingly' put it behind us as I wouldn't want to isolate wife 2, she sounds like she needs all the support & friendship she can get and encouragement to LTB but I wouldn't socialise with couple 2 together anymore than absolutely necessary.

DH had better be grovelling and apoplogetic when you see him, or I'd be having serious thoughts about my relationship. It is not just the content of the event, but the fact he didn't tell them to pack it in and not treat you like that

He's lucky you are going back... unless it would upset your kids, I'd have probably told him to fuck off forget that idea.

DH has a friend like this-he's like it with everyone when pissed; a complete wind-up merchant. I don't see him anymore...

Oh I see. It was a bit confusing from your posts where everyone was and who was there when it all kicked off. Also, where you have 'gone to' etc but none of that matters. As long as DH, once he knew what had happened, has shown himself not to be a complete bell-end then that's ok :) Now, just to deal with bloke 1 a bit and bloke 2 a lot... but as I say, I'd want it done in a way that doesn't isolate his wife... she will need your support & friendship I'm sure.

Its really unfair and unfortunate because of all the women in the group, I am probably the most hospitable, vivacious and up for a laugh. We have had some really hilarious nights where one of the blokes (not the seriously arseholey one) has been in tears of laughter with the funny banter that goes around. We generally get on like a house on fire but I am disappointed that he didn't call the other (proper arseholey one) on his opinions but decided to join in.

Honestly though you could be the most chilled out geezer-bird in the universe and still find the concept of females as little more than semen receptacles distasteful. And I apologise for even writing that but essentially that is the crux of the debate.

nombrechanger actually put the dictionary definition of provocation, which was correct.
I feel their pathetic behaviour was actually their sick version of kiss chase, where they fancied you but had to make it look like a game.hence started when your dh was out of the room.

How is your husband going to lay down boundaries? In a "look mate, don't wind her up, you know she gets" kind of way?

Debris seriously? You think her husband should pander to this dickhead and blame tatty for being over sensitive to being 'wound up'? I fucking hope that's not what he's planning to do!

Just to clarify for the minutes I retreated to my bedroom, but when they eventually left a couple of hours later, I grabbed the carkeys and drove the hour and a half home.

Am slightly testy with husband for not "checking on me" when he thought I was asleep and continuing to show them hospitality - if he had I would have said "they have seriously overstepped the mark, do you want to know what they said" and he probably would have called them on it. That said, he's not my keeper and if I wanted to talk to him I could have stuck my head out and asked him for a quick word. It was my choice to just lay low and let them get on with it and then inform my husband of exactly what took place, then leave (against his wishes but I said to him "you will respect me for it in the morning" - and he does)

Oops I may have misread your post - I didn't read the first word. Hopefully you agree with me th. That would be a terrible approach?

Do you have to go back? It's Saturday morning. Can't you have a lovely leisurely morning and do what you feel like?

I would feel all jittery going back. I hate confrontation like that and I would find the set up apology awkward. And I wouldn't want to get drunk with them again. Why don't you just have a nice time on your own?

Ehric! Of course I don't think that's how he should deal with it - it's just how I've seen these situations play out time and time again. Calling out each other on anti-women behaviour seems to be one of the last taboos for many men.

He's not the type Debris.

Anyway, I am actually going to lay down my own boundaries when/if I see them later. I don't actually need him to fight my battles for me, and though he would have stepped in if he was in the know (bearing in mind he was reading a story to the children and cuddling them and tucking them in) he missed the main "context" and the actual topic.

But that said I'm not going to tolerate any "you know how she gets" from anyone else either, because actually there is very little that "gets" me going, I am very chilled out generally which is why this is quite frustrating for me.

Oh I'm not going back yet nfk. Currently in my Superkingsized bed with a pint of latte and I'm just kicking myself for not grabbing a pack of bacon and some bread before making my pleasingly self-righteous departure last night

Here is how I would frame my response. 'I genuinely do not find rape jokes at all funny because frankly I know rape and sexual assault victims, we all do though you might not realise it because they are incredibly prevalent crimes. I am also aware of the huge damage rape does to its victims. I am conscious that at any time there could be a victim of rape in my company, again given the prevalence of the crime. What is also worth considering though is that if there are potential victims of rape in our company at any time then somewhere along the lines it is likely that we have come across a rapist without even realising it. That joke told unwittingly in their company not only trivialises and minimises their abhorrent behaviour it also condones it, he'll it even glorifies it. Personally I do not want to part of a culture that minimises and glorifies rape not ever. This is a red line issue and not a joking matter'

You must take yourself out for breakfast. And switch off your phone. Fuck 'em. Arseholes. I hope they are having to explain to their wives where their friend has gone and why.

Just had a text from my husband who said the really arseholey one has just dropped by to apologise and he told me I drove home last night. So I reckon they probably are nkf!!! Arghrrr what a mess.

Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in.