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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What's that thing people do where they goad you and goad you until finally they get a reaction...?

140 replies

TattyDevine · 05/10/2013 07:59

Long story short I have just opted out of a social situation where a couple of male friends were goading me, I was trying to ignore their silliness (they were a bit drunk) and eventually I just said, look, would you think it would be acceptable to be saying that about one of your family members to which you then get "don't twist my words" "we are only trying to wind you up" etc etc.

(For a bit of background they were making jokes about there being no such thing as rape in uni and how they are all gagging for it and how you should be able to buy rohypnol in the student union café. This conversation came about because I mentioned how pleased I was with the security of my 19 year old niece's uni accommodation)

I know there are various things called stonewalling and stuff but does this type of scenario as described above, picking and picking and picking until finally they get a rise then blaming it on you for being oversensitive, does that have a word? Or are they just c*nts, lol.

I could do with some help actually in how to manage these two "friends" and I know there is relationships but I'm all about the traffic right not. Go on Mumsnet sisterhood, give me some strength, my darling husband wants me to go back to this holiday site we are all staying and face these two sexist drunken oiks Confused

OP posts:
IsSpringSprangedYet · 05/10/2013 08:25

Isn't it gaslighting? I've seen it on here before and guessed that's what it meant.

But they are most definitely arseholes.

daisychain01 · 05/10/2013 08:25

It almost seems like passive aggressive undertones - they sound like complete knuckleheads to me, who say vile offensive things (normally sexist, racist or anti-religion) just trying to winding someone up, to which people attempt to ignore their moronic "banter" (yeah, right!).

Then when they get some sort of reaction, its all that "can't you take a joke? We were ooooooonly joking" crap. As if !!!

I would seriously consider whether you would ever want to waste even 30 seconds more of your time on such low-life.

nkf · 05/10/2013 08:29

I'd have nothing more to do with them. I wouldn't be friends with someone who tried to wind me up. I don't know what I would do on the holiday. I'd like to think that I would go home, but I know that isn't always easy. After the weekend, I'd dump them. I'd say to my husband, "I don't like your friends, so please don't invite them round any more. You can meet in the pub and they can tell their vile rape jokes there. Where I don't have to hear them."

SilverApples · 05/10/2013 08:29

So if his daughter is raped, it will be her fault?
If their wives are raped, they were gagging for it due to their inadequate partners, and the rapes would be their fault?
If I had to see them again, I'd try and stay calm and logical and I'd personalise it. Men with that sort of 'sense of humour' usually do it by distancing themselves from the subject matter, and often flounder when you get specific.
They are unpleasant and very common unfortunately.

daisychain01 · 05/10/2013 08:30

IsSpring I think you have a point, it seems to be a blend of gas lighting and passive aggressive.

Gaslighting, taken from the film of the same name, is probably over a longer time, because it is the ongoing effort of someone to try to make a person think they are ""imagining things, its all in your mind" to make them think they are going mad. Horrid, pernicious, cruel.

What the OP is describing isnt far off that, they were turning their bad behaviour back on her, to make it out to be her fault "ooo you're sooooo sensitive".

Vivacia · 05/10/2013 08:38

I would like an answer to this dilemma too. The best I've come up with is not engaging, acting exasperated or shocked but saying calmly and firmly something along the lines of, "you know, when you say things like that it makes you sound like a creepy, dirty rapist yourself and not somebody I would trust around my children?".

Original poster
TattyDevine · 05/10/2013 08:40

Gaslighting!!! That's the one. Yes, I fear it will become a form of that, when I next see them they will try and make out they didn't say what they said and that I got it all wrong and that I'm being a hysterical female etc etc

OP posts:
Snazzyenjoyingsummer · 05/10/2013 08:42

I would also ask 'Why is it funny to wind me up? I thought we were friends but that's treating me like the evening's entertainment. Now I know how it really is'.

nkf · 05/10/2013 08:43

It's okay not to have a sense of humour about rape jokes. People really mind being told they don't get jokes. Or being thought stuffy. Try calling them on it. Say, "I'm sorry. Is that a joke? I don't get it. Can you explain the humour to me?" They sound pig shit ignorant and best dropped, but perhaps you feel you can't do that.

Original poster
TattyDevine · 05/10/2013 08:43

FellatioNelson thank you for a brilliant post. You've hit the nail on the head. You really have. Its tricky because whilst they showed some rather yucky true colours I don't want to bust up an entire friendship group over it (bear in mind I have very close friendships with their wives and have known their children since they were born etc etc) so even if I hold these two oiks at arms length which should be easy enough to do, I want to get it right in how I deal with them and accept any apology that might be forthcoming whilst saving face and not being manipulated.

Lots of wise replies from everyone as usual, fuck I love Mumsnet.

OP posts:
DameFellatioNelson · 05/10/2013 08:44

I thought gaslighting was something else entirely. Where you know something to be happening, but the person in question denies it and does their best to throw you off the scent to the point where they will make you feel mad and paranoid for even thinking it, all the while carrying on whatever behaviour you were concerned about right under your nose.

I suppose this could be construed as GLing, in a way but I don't it's exactly that.

Original poster
TattyDevine · 05/10/2013 08:45

Snazzy YES! They were treating me like the evening's entertainment

OP posts:
Vivacia · 05/10/2013 08:45

And you know, what really gets to me is the fact that I chose not to refer to my own experiences, therefore protecting them from upset or humiliation.

nkf · 05/10/2013 08:46

I see. You don't want to lose a group over it. Difficult. I don't know. I never had group friends where I didn't like everybody. Can you ask their wives to ask them to stop it?

ProfondoRosso · 05/10/2013 08:48

A lot of people explain away their offensive behaviour as comedic banter. Someone needs to tell them that if you need to tell people something is funny and inoffensive, then it probably isn't.

ExcuseTypos · 05/10/2013 08:50

Can I ask, were their wives their when they were saying all this? What did they say?
If they were it sounds like they're used it this kind of behaviour and think its normalSad

ExcuseTypos · 05/10/2013 08:51

There

Snazzyenjoyingsummer · 05/10/2013 08:51

Even aside of the fact that this is them spouting disgusting views on rape (and they aren't even being logical - if everyone is gagging for it then why the need for rohypnol? Idiots) they are treating you like a sideshow and not a person. Tell them that. It would change any 'friendship' irrevocably for me to have what you've described happen.

TheUnsinkableTitanic · 05/10/2013 08:52

where their wives there?

knobbers!

Original poster
TattyDevine · 05/10/2013 08:58

The two wives of these 2 particular chaps both have young babies as well as older children - one is about 7 months the other just over a year old and had croup last week and they needed putting down to sleep, so they had gone back to their apartments to do that and to be present for their older children. This gave the 2 drunken oiks the opportunity to return to our apartment which was "the bar" for the night as I had "hosted" and it was soon after they settled down with yet more alcohol they started picking away at me.

OP posts:
MissStrawberry · 05/10/2013 08:58

" And that very fact is going to be used as me "not having a sense of humour" or "being uptight."

Better to be thought of incorrectly as the above than correctly as a bully (won't stop), wanker (rape is never funny) or a twat (self explanatory.)

Make your husband 100% clear what was said, how you feel and that you expect his loyalty to be to you and not bullies, wankers or twats.

Nombrechanger · 05/10/2013 08:58

It's not gaslighting, that's something else entirely.

It's called PROVOCATION.

Noun
Action or speech that provokes someone, esp. deliberately.
Action or speech held to be likely to prompt physical retaliation.

Synonyms
incitement - instigation - challenge

ArtisanLentilWeaver · 05/10/2013 08:59

Rohypnol is non selective - it can be used to spike men too.Would they find it so hysterically funny if they were spiked then raped?
They are bear bating you to hide their pathetically shallow ego boundaries and their obvious ignorance.

You deserve better friends.

ThreeBeeOneGee · 05/10/2013 08:59

I would call this goading or baiting.

They both sound very immature. Even DS1 (13) understands what rape is, what victim blaming is, and that some topics aren't appropriate or funny to try and make jokes about.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee · 05/10/2013 09:00

Tatty - did you not say "Oh right - so when 'x's daughter' goes to Uni, she will be gagging for it and will be there for any guy who fancies a fuck will she?"

I would be seriously pissed off with the pair of them. I'd tell the wives what they were saying (so they'd know why I was pissed off) [and if the wives were there joining in or dismissing it as 'boys will be boys', it would be the end of the close relationship] but I would be even more pissed off with your DH - he didn't stop them either because it was vile or because it was winding you up???????