Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

Sorry but thats how I feel. I realise it goes against the "Mumsnet way of thinking" but thats just how it is.

You appear to be accusing HQ of creating the This is my Child campaign in order to pander to advertisers.

Sorry, I completely misread. You are saying that HQ have no genuine good intentions as long as it doesn't upset the advertisers, yes?

Children with SN use statements to allow them to ruin the education of "good children" with impunity?

Wtaf?

I should hope that goes against the Mumsnet "way of thinking" unless all of MN are ignroant bastards.

it's a political issue successive parties changing strategy( academies anyone, baccalaureate bollocks) and paperwork and top down govt diktats including populist culture stuff like jamie oliver school dinners influencing the education system.

not enough teachers
teachers aren't paid enough
too much paperwork
teachers get too many holidays
class sizes too big
lots of schools not equipped,
or
have to close and join with another school or move into a new bigger school because we are now treating out children on economies of scale - its cheaper to buy resources for a thousand than 500

the responsability of teaching a child manners and respect is a parental one. Seeing as no-one teaches parents how to parent, the RESULTING behaviour must be dealt with by teachers.

'I work in education and it's heartbreaking to see children hungry to be educated have it ruined by others who just want to cause chaos and who have the statements that allow them to do just that with umpunity. Why should good kids have their chances in life ruined?'

So statemented children aren't 'good' children?

Oh, and hi again Doris.

Good point star. .one other post from this poster on feminism board calling them arseholes basically

Someone is clearly determined to post horrible things about kids with SEN..what a charmer

I always worry when someone makes a huge point of saying they work in education and then ramble on with bad punctuation and bad spelling. These are supposedly the people that are educating our children??!!?

Actually fraggle, my son has a Statement of SEN and is not disruptive - never has been.

Crawl back under that rock love!

Fraggle My child has a Statement, he wants to be educated. Chaos upsets him. Have you read my posts properly?

I have just reported fraggle's last post for her anti SN stance and the sheer idiocy.

I hope to God that she is not a teacher and more a (under the) bridge dweller.

I doubt fraggle has read your posts. .I wouldn't engage with them tbh

If she/he is a teacher then I am the Pope

What BoundandRebound said but without the SN bit, I disagree there.

May I suggest reading the Sue Palmer books to all the naysayers regarding the deterioration of behaivour with children? Oh and the supporting texts and research, it's eye opening and alarming reading. Only the coming together of parents is going to help us detoxify our children's lives. I HIGHLY recomend the Cambridge Primary Review, even though it's heavy going.

In Detoxing Childhood Ms Palmer says she saw a poster in a staff room that said:

The floggings will continue until the morale improves.

THIS is what we are doing to our teachers and these are the people who look after our children for more hours a week than we have them! So yes, I bloody well support our teachers and think they need more INFORMED parent power helping them do a difficult job which will only be made more difficult by bloody Gove!

The Cub is in reception, he very nearly got a warning and I saw him push another boy whilst nobody had eyes on him. This is not normal for him. When he got outside I told him off then and there in front of his teacher and made him say sorry to the boy and his teacher. Afterwards one parent asked me why I did that I had this face , it's the attitude of the parents.

They have the peg system for children and moving a peg should be a big deal - it would be for me - I've seen parents just shrug and walk off when their child tells them they have moved their peg. It's like the kid goes through the door and nothing that happens in there has any effect afterwards.

To many people have the ask not what I can do for the school but what the school can do for me attitude hence there was no election for parent governor and I walked in. I have some fairly radical ideas about what I'd like to see in school so I'm going to be keeping my mouth shut for a while until I can see the political landscape a bit better.

I love this bit in Detoxing:

Before we can detox childhood, we need to detox the realtionship between school and home. This involves both sides accepting responsibilities:

Schools need to be welcoming to parents, to keep them well informed, to consult them and genuinely take their opinions into account.
Parents need to know and follow school procedures, keep up to date with information, ensure they're doing their bit towards their children's developement and maintain good contacts with their school.

Teachers and parents need to be honest with each other about what they want for children (and, in the final analysius this is likely to be [this] wishlist:

[ to teach children the 3Rs, on which all other education depends

to encourage children's interest in learning, so they go on to secondary school bright-eyed, bushy-tailed and ready to make the most of their talents (whatever they might be)

to help children get along with each other and adjust to the roles and routines of educational life ]

than a narrowing of the curriculum and endless coaching and 'boosting' to get the school's required quota of 'levels' in Key Stage 2 SATs)

NONE of what I do makes me a fantastic parent, if you'd seen me shouting at The Cub Thursday morning when all he was being was 4 you'd know that. It does make me want to do better for him and the other children he goes to school with.

Doris80 there is no ACTUAL evidence that Broken Windows actually reduced crime and there have been loads of studies. I suggest better research or stop stating opinions as facts. Have just read the MN ptb's reply to the troll Doris, can't you ban the IP address? However, I do think the oxygen of common sense can bleach out the rubbish that is spouted by this kind of mindset.

ForgiveTheSpellingGrammarI'mKnackeredAndTheCubHasBeenCrawlingOverMeTiggaxx

road pupil premium funding isn't for SN, it is for ever6 (children who have ever been entitled to FSM in the last six years) looked after children, and children with parents in the forces as far as I am aware.

The low level disruption from non-SN children is what causes me the most problems - clam if you have any tips I would gladly take them! Now school and the behaviour is very challenging in some older classes.

Whilst this doesn't necessarily form part of the behaviour issue I do also think there is a lack of information and training for teachers about some SN. For example we have lots of children with BESD next to their names on the SEN register, but no further information about what this means individually to that child, or how best to deal with them for example. Children with higher level needs we have lots of information on and support in the classrooms.

MrsHerculePoirot

For example we have lots of children with BESD next to their names on the SEN register, but no further information about what this means individually to that child, or how best to deal with them for example.

I think you need a word with the SENCO. Something is not happening here.

SN/SEN is such a wide blanket that it would be impossible for anyone to to generalise about the impact of inclusion in any class.

In my experience there are some children with SEN that undoubtedly impact on the ability of the teacher to teach the rest of the class in the way the teacher would desire. The child with SEN also has a raw deal in these circumstances as they are often removed from the classroom situation and learnng little. However, with support, many children with SEN thrive in mainstream education.

In the school where I currently work it is not children with SEN that cause the most disruption. Disruption comes from children who have poor behaviour, which has different causes. Often it is from children where there are problems at home which range from low expectations of behaviour, discipline, children who witness adults behaving badly, children who are emotionally unstable because of family situations, parents who are unsupportive of school, and even parents who bring their children up to believe that they are so fantastic they don't need to listen to anyone else. Luckily these children are in the minority, but one or two in a class makes it hard work and takes away valuable time from the children who are well behaved and ready to be taught.

MrsHerculePoirot- thanks I didn't realise that, I have only recently discovered the pupil premium in relation to the care system

Calling the ones without SN the 'good ones' is sick and I hope anybody in the education system would not say it
Why should the 'good ones' who already have an advantage in life then be treated favourably in the classroom

And if they come from chaotic homes or troubled families they are still disadvantaged even though it is not SN. If they do not get the support and understanding in school what hope have they got for the future

Was just about to post exactly what isabelle has just said. Can't top that. The kids in my school who are the most time-consuming behaviour-wise, are not necessarily those with SN, SEN or difficult home lives. I'm thinking of 2 or 3 at the moment who are going through goodness-knows-what at home, but who are touchingly pleased and grateful for the calm routine at school, and who are keen to get on and do the best they can.

clam- I really do not think you can make that assumption
They may be children suffering abuse/maltreatment
No-one really knows what goes on at home

It's not an assumption. I'm talking about children I know.

There needs to be more SMLD centres of excellence to deal with students with severe learning difficulties because, no matter how well meaning you feel, a child with for example severe autism at secondary level who cannot communicate clearly, who stims and cycles and has understandable physically aggressive reactions to frustrations cannot be well catered for in most mainstream schools.

And there are parents who believe that, despite professional advice, their child can cope in the environment, who have to be convinced.

And there are not enough specialist centres because of government policy to mainstream students who really cannot cope