Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

"And yet the vast majority of inventions/scientific discoveries/innovations com from here"

Is that true, and how many of the people making these discoveries and innovations went to "inclusive" schools and not private schools or good state schools with streaming?

"Doris80 for social mobility to increase, some the "haves" have to have less. There aren't an infinite number of satisfying and well-paid jobs for all those whose qualifications demand it. How do you think that will come about?"

By some of the "not haves" being smarter and more educated than the "haves" and taking their jobs? We could also have a more high skilled economy and take skilled jobs that are currently in other countries. And new jobs in new industries that don't really exist yet.

Just typed out a reply to doris. Decided instead of pressing send and waiting I'd just post this....................

Message deleted for breaking our talk guidelines.

my son came home today and told me his friend's mother was called a fkg c but because the child had SN the teacher told him to just ignore it.*

That doesn't mean that the child wasn't dealt with, you know. And seriously, you've never told your child to just ignore something someone else has said?? Never??

youarewinning bwahahahahahaa

PolterGoose. Have you read about a poster called Morry 1000and her DD.
Her DD is exceptional bright with an IQ of 137 but with serious behavioural problems but with support is finally geting it together and achieving as well as behaving now.

So you're saying because gifted kids can go further socially, the "others" should be left behind?? Because the gifted kids are then more important?

Doris a lot of extremely gifted kid have difficulties in other areas.

What does that make them?

Polter I would think in the long run your child needs to have their issues addressed so they are able to coexist with other children in a classroom. If your child is disrupting other children in class he should not be there. It isn't fair to the other umpteen children in the class who are not learning while your child disrupts class.

I went to private school because I had special needs and my LEA wasn't capable of providing me with the help I needed. To say private schools are elitist is beyond the pale for me. The schools I went to did exception work with their intake. There were many of us with special needs and we were able to in regular classes because we behaved. Very few of the parents were paying full fees. The assisted places scheme did a great job of giving an opportunity to children such as myself and those who came from dysfunction homes. When I was tested for dyslexia I had an IQ of 136 and a reading age of 7. I was 12 years old. At 18 I got BBB in Biology, Chemistry and Economics (not modular, no retakes). I graduated from a RB university and worked for an IB in a trading position. I thank my lucky stars for the education I received.

"We need to look at private schools and see what they do that state schools do not. I can't imagine many of them have much truck with all the "inclusion" bullshit."

Actually, my ds attends a ms, selective, independent school which is choc full of pupils with various SNs, a good proportion of those pupils have ASD, (as does my ds) and consequently struggle socially and find the school environment challenging - yet this school achieves fantastic results year after year and exclusions are low compared to state schools.

How? They treat each child as an individual, work out what their needs are - regardless of whether or not they have SNs - and empower them to build on their strengths to achieve the very best they can.

In state school my ds was left to coast, because having SNs meeting the national average was 'good enough' for him, despite having been tested and proven to be capable of so much more. In his ms state school, the top performing pupils were given a whole year of additional lessons to push them up to level 6 SAT results, whilst pupils who were less able and/or had SNs were all but ignored and had no additional support. That is not inclusion.

My ds's current independent school is far more inclusive than the majority of state schools, never refuses a child a place based on their SNs and still has low levels of exclusion and excellent exam results - which proves it can be done.

The problem is not with children who have SNs, it's with the educational system that repeatedly fails to meet even their basic needs and with the attitude of schools and sometimes individual teachers who consistently fail to understand the true meaning of inclusion.

No this is worse than Gove.

Yes. Because why should the gifted kids have to have their future sacrificed? I just don't see the logic in it.

And you're perfectly happy to sacrifice the children with disabilities and special needs in order to achieve this?

not swearing. no, not at school. i dont want my son to have to listen to that kind of language. why the patronising ????? if thats inclusion its something quite different and more negative than i understood.

Not in last 10 yrs. Like a previous poster o was assaulted wholkst pregnant 8 yes ago. Before that I was regularly sworn at. I think phaps 30 yes ago things were different.

"Doris a lot of extremely gifted kid have difficulties in other areas."

Exactly my point. Ds's school is full of children who excel academically, but struggle in a myriad of other ways. State ms schools like my ds's primary often fail these pupils, through consistently refusing to make simple and reasonable adjustments that would mean they are able to feel relaxed and secure at school and as a result meet their full potential. Yet if/when those reasonable adjustments are made, those pupils are not only not disruptive in the classroom, but able to achieve to extremely high standards - a win win for both school and pupil - yet so rare it's practically unheard of. Why?

If my ds's school can do it - it just proves it can be done.

But what if they are both gifted and have additional needs?
Decisions, decisions. Pity you can't graft humans like apple trees I suppose.

Doris you sound very scared. Do you get out much? How do you manage, you know, amongst the public?

Argh. Sacrifices now? Its getting more barbaric by the minute.