AIBU to think that if someone called me a 'white bitch' I would not find that racist

[Brigantia]

I've been reading the 2 asian guys chased me thread and I'm a bit confused.

If someone said to you 'white bitch' would you think that was a racial slur?

I wouldn't ..I'd just think they were arseholes

I'd be more concerned about the 'bitch' bit

[NutritiousAndDelicious]

I agree with curlew

I work in a public sector job, I've been called a cracker, a ghost, and a white bitch.

The only thing I take as an insult is bitch. They are calling me white, which I am. Cracker and ghost, rightly or wrongly, just make me laugh.

IMO people who say white/black bitch, are scraping the barrel to try and get a reaction, they are a bit dim in other words. I wouldn't think straight away OMG you are being racist towards me, because they were correct in saying I am white. If you know what I mean?

[BrevilleTron]

It was my thread. I posted what they called me.
I personally found it offensive as surely 'bitch' was enough
They had no need to draw attention to my colour.

I don't really see people in terms of race or colour
I see them as people. Even if they piss me off I won't resort to a cheap insult about their race.
No one can help their race. Everyone can help their behaviour.

I put their ethnicity in as context to the 'white bitch' comment.
Until they yelled that. I hadn't noticed they were Asian
I just noticed they were arseholes.

[chrome100]

Of course it's racist and to the poster above who said "since when has being white been an insult"? Since always.

I grew up in an area in which white people where the minority. For the most part, this was fine. But it didn't stop my Asian friends' parents stopping them spending time with me at the weekends because I am white - therefore I will make them drink/take drugs/shag boys.

That's an insult, and racist.

[curlew]

Chrome- that sounds as if I was about being non Muslim rather than white. I'm sure they would have been the same about a black or Asian person who was not a Muslim.

[curlew]

"I don't really see people in terms of race or colour
I see them as people."

I am always a bit puzzled by people who say this. How can you not? You can see them as people but acknowledge their ethnicity as well.

And it doesn't sit terribly well with the title of your original thread, does it?

[Doodledumdums]

I wouldn't be offended because I AM white, and I think it is a pretty ridiculous insult to highlight something factual which really isn't an issue. However it IS racist, because it is followed by 'Bitch', and is intended as an insult. In the same way that if they had said 'Fat bitch,' it may be factual (in my case anyway!), but it is definitely intended as an insult or else there is no point in highlighting it, but no one would quibble over whether that comment is derogatory.

[Lazyjaney]

The backward bending mental gymnastics on here to avoid seeing "white bitch" as racist are extraordinary. Time for their PC radars to be adjusted I think.

[Grennie]

It is clear white is being used as an insult. But to be racist, it has to have structural power behind it i.e. education system, legal system and other institutions, have to treat you negatively because you are white. That doesn't happen. So no it is not racist.

[stringornothing]

But grennie - how would that leave people who are discriminated against by another minority group. If a Somali applicant is rejected by a UK Ghanaian employer on grounds of ethnicity then is that not racist?

And does that mean that homophobia is no longer a meaningful concept, because as the recent B&B case shows, the institutional power of the State is very much on the side of the victim rather than the bigots.

I'm with the majority I think - it's a racial term used as an insult therefore it's racist. It doesn't come with baggage going back centuries, it's not part of a huge historic apparatus of discrimination, but it can still be very serious for the recipient if the speaker has the power to sack you, or is your STBMIL.

[cory]

I think Grennie is absolutely right about power; that to me is an essential aspect of racism.

But I don't think it has to be institutionalised power. In a smaller, more local context you might well find that black or Asian people do have power in that particular setting. Thinking for instance of Asian men abusing white girls or a white child being a minority in their particular school- in that case, in that particular setting, the power lies with the adult or with the majority, however marginalised they may be in the rest of their lives. And I think it will follow that any verbal or other abuse that results from race attitudes meets Grennie's criteria.

A grown man abusing a child because he despises her race is racism regardless of the fact that the same man may suffer abuse himself in a different context: that doesn't help the child; she doesn't benefit from the general power of her ethnicity. Five black pupils ganging up on an Asian child because she is different would be racism even though neither group is advantaged in wider society. They still have power over her through numbers.

Denying that this can happen is shutting our eyes to the complexities of society.

[bigTillyMint]

The "white" on its own wouldn't offend me at all (for example, DS was known as "whiteMintie" as he was they only white boy and there were two "Minties" on his old footy team - no slur at all) It is the "bitch" bit that would bother me.

And as someone (Tethers?) said above, using white as an insult does not have all the negative connotations of being oppressed for hundreds of years that black does.

[tethersend]

"The equivalent [of calling someone English when they're Welsh] is paki used as an insult to describe even Asians who are not from Pakistan eg Indian/Sri Lankan/Bengali, even if its aimed at a resin from Pakistan the word paki becomes an insult because of the intent of the user."

I don't really know where to start with this one.

The word 'paki' IS an insult, a racist insult, regardless of the intent of the user. It is a loaded word with decades of racist abuse attached to it. It is in no way the equivalent of calling an Englishman Welsh etc.

[Lazyjaney]

The ramifications of the slave trade c 1600 to 1830 are not an acceptable reason to condone calling someone a white bitch in 2013.

It's like arguing it's ok to call any German woman a Nazi bitch in 2013 because of what happened in Germany between 1933 and 1945.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

if we want to move beyond racism, IMO we do need to treat calling someone a white bitch in the same way as if they had been called a black bitch.

its not ok to do this because white people have generally/frequently been the aggressor in racism.

all of that said, clearly most racism has and continues to be direct at black and Asian people.

[Tiredemma]

I would.

Why make any reference to my colour?

[curlew]

"The ramifications of the slave trade c 1600 to 1830 are not an acceptable reason to condone calling someone a white bitch in 2013. "

But nobody is condoning it.......

[Stravy]

But I don't think it has to be institutionalised power. In a smaller, more local context you might well find that black or Asian people do have power in that particular setting

I would agree with this. I wouldn't for a minute suggest that I don't benefit massively from white privilege but to take the example of being refused entry to a restaurant that I cited up thread, I was on my own (except for baby), I didn't have a phone, DH and everyone else were already inside, changing bag (with bottles) was in the restaurant. The restaurant was upstairs and I was stopped on the stairs. I shouted for DH but he didn't hear me. I was kicked out for being a 'white bitch' (said in another language but it's roughly equivalent) and was alone on the street with a hungry baby.

I'm really struggling to see how this wasn't a racist incident. It might not be 'as bad' as institutionalised racism but it still exists the way men can suffer sexism as individuals to a greater or lesser extent but still benefit from male privilege.

[BrevilleTron]

curlew

As I already stated.
I put their ethnicity
Because they drew attention to MINE

[tethersend]

"The ramifications of the slave trade c 1600 to 1830 are not an acceptable reason to condone calling someone a white bitch in 2013.

It's like arguing it's ok to call any German woman a Nazi bitch in 2013 because of what happened in Germany between 1933 and 1945."

Indeed it would be.

If anyone was saying that racist abuse is acceptable. Which they're not.

Using your German example, Germany brought in stringent anti-nazi laws prohibiting the swastika etc. precisely because of the history surrounding them. This is what I am saying about context, and how it affects the impact of racist abuse.

[Lazyjaney]

So to be clear Tethersend and Curlew, given your vacillating over this thread, do you believe the term white in white bitch is, or is, not racist?

[FreudiansSlipper]

lazyjane they have both answered that if you have read their post

and agree with tethers in reply to your previous post no one has said it is ok

and olivia that is horrible what you went through but i disagree that white people have to prove themselves because they are white, on some occasions yes but it is rare and we are not judged on the colour

[tethersend]

"So to be clear Tethersend and Curlew, given your vacillating over this thread, do you believe the term white in white bitch is, or is, not racist?"

I have been clear and consistent, Lazyjaney. I have said a number of times that it is racist.

Please let me know if you'd like me to explain my position again.

[curlew]

"So to be clear Tethersend and Curlew, given your vacillating over this thread, do you believe the term white in white bitch is, or is, not racist?"

I haven't vacillated. No. I do not believe the term "white" in "white bitch" is racist.

[Latara]

I think 'white bitch' is racist just like 'black bitch' is racist.

[Damnautocorrect]

I used to work with someone who called white women white devil women and white bitches.
Everyone (except me) found it hilarious .
Any reference to any colour used as an insult is racist