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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be somewhat surprised by this attitude to breastfeeding?

108 replies

Sarah2506 · 01/10/2013 19:32

So we are out walking in the Lake District. We planned a walk so that we would get to a village with a tea room around the time baby would need a feed. Which we did, just as it started to rain. The tearoom was closed for refurbishment. This wasn't on its web page. There was a shop there which sold tea and coffee staffed by a young woman. I asked for two teas and asked about feeding the baby. There was a chair in the corner. I asked if I could use it as it was raining. She said no. I asked where I could sit and she told me there was a bench outside and that I could feed her there. I politely pointed out that it was raining and she told me that 'I couldn't do that sort of thing in here'.

This really upset me but I didn't say anything. It luckily stopped raining so I did go outside. I have been thinking of indigent replies the rest of the day.

AIBU? Was it out of order for me to ask to use the chair? I don't want to sound all entitled and I wouldn't exactly ask to use a chair in the corner of tesco but this just felt different and not an unreasonable request as their website hadn't been updated.

OP posts:
hettienne · 01/10/2013 22:40

Exactly, why wouldn't you let an elderly or disabled person who needed to sit down use the chair Confused What kind of person would you have to be to send a tired little old lady out into the rain to sit down because it's YOUR chair and YOU might want to use it at some future point?

musicismylife · 01/10/2013 22:47

It's this subservient (is that the right word) attitude to BF that lets peeps behave like this.

Some 17 yrs ago when I was feeding daughter on train, ticketman collected my ticket and told me that I shouldn't (not couldn't) feed my dd. The reply he got, he did not expect. He got a 'YOU FUCKING WHAT"? said extremely loudly. I then asked him to repeat what he had said. He mumbled under his breath and carried on his merry way.

No, I am not pleased I swore and sounded like Vicki pollard but do not tell me I cannot feed my child!!

Why on earth are people asking for peruission? It's almost like you're buying into the warped idea that It's weird etc to feed a child.

musicismylife · 01/10/2013 22:48

Permission*

froken · 01/10/2013 22:49

If a person actually needed the chair because they wereunable to walk home or they needed to administrator medication then ofcourse they should be given use of the chair but if it is just bad planning/not wanting to get wet then I don't think that is a good enough reason to use a chair in a shop.

Did you not have an umbrella? Could you not tuck the baby under your rain coat? I have taken ds on rainy and snowy walks, I don't expect a nice warm chair to pop up when he needed feeding I just tucked him inside my jacket when he was hungry.

georgettemagritte · 01/10/2013 22:54

froken you're missing the point, she has a legal right to breastfeed there without interference, she doesn't need a "good enough reason"....

hettienne · 01/10/2013 22:54

So you'd send an elderly or disabled person out to sit in the rain because it was their own bad planning rather than let them sit in an empty chair Confused What a bizarre worldview.

dragonflymama · 01/10/2013 22:54

Disgraceful! I would've gone mad. I also wouldn't have asked in the first place. I am currently bf dd2 and bf dd1. I believe in doing this whenever you need to and wherever is most comfortable for mother & child. I always use a muslin or pashmina to cover and wear bf vest tops so
It's virtually impossible to see anything.

On the flip side, out of necessity I fed my daughter in row 1 of the airport arrivals lounge last week. An older man insisted I gave up the seat to my right for him, which the baby was overhanging onto when feeding.
The lady to my right moved up, asked if I wanted her scarf and if she could get me a glass of water. She chatted to me throughout about how beautiful it was to watch a relaxed mum feeding. If only the world was full of people like this lovely soul!

NoComet · 01/10/2013 22:55

I've never asked anywhere public, never crossed my mind to.

People's houses, yes, but in a cafe having bought something no way.

froken · 01/10/2013 23:00

I had no idea that you must be supplied with a place to sit if one was available to breastfeed a baby.

If you wanted to breastfeed in Sainsburys and requested to use a checkout chair that wasn't in use would they have to allow it?

It all just seems like a big fuss for something that doesn't need to be a big fuss.

Milkhell · 01/10/2013 23:01

Agree with Star. You really needn't ask.

hettienne · 01/10/2013 23:06

You don't have to be supplied with a chair froken - but if one is available, isn't it normal human decency to allow someone to sit down if they need to?

Telling someone they "can't do that in here" in regards to breastfeeding is illegal though.

FirstStopCafe · 01/10/2013 23:08

This is very sad. I have asked to borrow a chair before from behind a stall at a farmers market to bf and they were very obliging so I probably would have asked in your situation too. I'm shocked at her response.

KenAdams · 01/10/2013 23:08

I never ask anywhere. People who tried to stop me would have met with my wrath. If my child needed feeding, I'd feed her anywhere. After she'd said that I'd have plonked myself on the chair and done a booby swing.

I think its awful that's she said that to you. Yes she might have been behind the times, but that wasn't acceptable.

bababababoom · 01/10/2013 23:11

I'm confused about why you needede to ask to use the chair - you were in a cafe, so weren't you sitting at a table? Or was it just a take away place? It wouldn't have occured to me to ask. I've fed in supermarkets, cafes, on a train, aeroplane, even in the swimming pool (that's a whole separate debate I've had elsewhere) and nobody has once asked me not to.

froken · 01/10/2013 23:14

I think if someone needs to sit down it would be kind to let them sit down. I just don't see the need to breastfeed as anymore important than the need to give a toddler a snack or the need for a grown up person to sit and drink their cup of tea

I read the "you can't do that here" to mean you can't stay and consume your drinks, feed your baby, keep yourself dry because we are a shop not a cafe.

georgettemagritte · 01/10/2013 23:14

You don't have to be supplied with a chair, but you can't be refused one that is publically available. In practice a business must have a chair available to meet legal access requirements for disabled customers so it would be unlikely that Sainsburys would not have chairs available for customer use (which they could not then refuse you the use of.)

georgettemagritte · 01/10/2013 23:17

It doesn't matter that it's a shop not a cafe. They are public premises, providing services.

Wincher · 01/10/2013 23:20

I bf on a chair in sainsburys the other day - it was in the pharmacy section. The pharmacist did come and say I could use the consulting room if I wanted but I declined politely and explained I was looking out for my husband.I thought at the time I bet someone onmumsnet would be offended by being offered a private space to feed!
But yanbu - it would have been a kindness for her to allow you to use the chair to feed your child.

froken · 01/10/2013 23:26

Do the same chair providing laws apply to bottle fed babies and babies eating solid food?

It seems to be lots of faff around something that women have been doing since the beginning of time ( presumably without lawfully protected chairs)

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/10/2013 23:28

I had no idea that you must be supplied with a place to sit if one was available to breastfeed a baby

Nobody has to supply you with a place to sit (even if decent people would) but if seating is available and any other customer for any other reason would be allowed to use it then it is an offence to refuse any legally protected person from also using it.

If you wanted to breastfeed in Sainsburys and requested to use a checkout chair that wasn't in use would they have to allow it?

No they are very clearly chairs that are not intended for customer use in a section of the store that members of the public (customers) are not allowed to be it is also highly unlikely that other customers would be able to use those chairs.

It all just seems like a big fuss for something that doesn't need to be a big fuss

The assistant did not just refuse the use of a chair she refused the use of the premises, the law is the law and nobody gets to pick and choose what bits of it they follow with out risking sanctions laws that protect vulnerable groups are there for a damn good reason.

Journey · 01/10/2013 23:28

I agree with froken.

I can't help but feel that some people think they should get special treatment because they're breastfeeding. Why can't it just be about feeding a baby (formula or breast)?

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/10/2013 23:33

Weird that being able to do exactly what other customers are able to do gets called special treatment as soon as breast feeding comes into it.

froken · 01/10/2013 23:43

I object to breastfeeding women being called a vulnerable group. Breastfeeding and the fact that you can do it anytime and anywhere without access to a microwave and sterilizing equipment is in my opinion a very powerful skill.

If the op had said "aibu to be offended that a shopkeeper wouldn't provide a chair for my pfb to sit onand eat a baby led weaning roast dinner?" ( which would be much harder in the rain!) the op would be seen as entitled but because breastfeeding is involved all effort should be made to accommodate the parent?

georgettemagritte · 01/10/2013 23:46

The entitlement is not to the chair, it is to the provision of services on an equal basis to all other customers. The chair being there, it forms part of the shop's public services. Sockreturningpixie has put it very clearly above.

The reason bf is protected and ff is not protected is that ff is not a protected quality of the mother feeding by virtue of her sex under the Equality Act 2010. Pregnancy, maternity and sex are protected characteristics under the Act and bf falls under those characteristics. I might agree with you that a baby has a right to be fed full stop, but under the Equality Act formula feeding is not a protected characteristic of the baby, whereas bf is a protected characteristic of the mother. In Scotland 2005 legislation gives a baby under a certain age the right not to be refused milk in public, which AFAIK also protects ff.

IneedAsockamnesty · 02/10/2013 00:13

Froken,

Its groups that are vulnerable to discrimination but they may not necessarily be vulnerable to anything else (obviously equally as such they may very well be). It may be a powerful skill but that still does not give anybody the right to prevent you using a facility that would be made available to any other customer.

If Fred blogs down the road would have been allowed to sit on the chair whilst he waited out the rain then there is no reason why the op also shouldn't have been able to.

Eating solid food is not the same as BF you may not agree with that but as things stand the law does so in public access able venues where no legal sex devide or legit health and safety reason exists you cannot be deprived of services that would be available to other customers because you are BF or for any other legally protected reason.even if it is not usual to eat there.

Example BF on operating roller coaster = ok to prohibit

BF in library = not ok to prohibit