AIBU to hate charity Christmas shoe boxes?

[unlucky83]

We get asked to one from the school and from Sunday school ...2 Dcs that is 4 of them...last year I cut it down to 2 - doing the same this year
I really really really hate doing them...but DDs are upset if we don't ...
(at school they have an assembly where the people organising it talk to the DCs about them)...
We wander round the shops/supermarket making sure we get all the essentials on the list - buying the cheapest stuff there is ...kind of think hats/gloves/underwear are probably made by the people we send them back to..
I know I'm not on my own - everyone I know who does one says they do the same ...
Even then each box costs at least £30 ...could the money not be better spent directly by the charity buying good quality stuff that is going to last?
On the lists they say extras - like PJs - how the hell do you fit a pair of PJs for a teenager in a shoe box with all the other stuff...I find I can never fit much 'extra' in...usually just sweets as treats - good job they get toothpaste and toothbrushes or they'd have rotten teeth to add to their misery..

Then you have to find a box...then wrap the bloody things...
I just find it really difficult to wrap the box and lid separately and not get an end result that looks like it has been chewed by the dog...just spent the best part of 30 mins wrapping one that looks like a 2 yr old did it...

So am I being unreasonable to hate them and dread the leaflets coming home?

Wouldn't it be great to get around a table and have this discussion face to face?!

Maybe some of you guys would like to see an OCC distribution up close?!

OK peeps, I have some errands to run, maybe catch some of you online later today, or tomorrow, have fun (and keep warm!)

Kind regards,
Brian

Yes, but Brian, you said there was no presence and that's clearly not the case, is it?

Just out of interest, and for comparison's sake, I just looked up what Samaritan's Purse has been doing in Haiti since the earthquake, and what Christian Aid has been doing there.

Samaritan's Purse: "Water, sanitation, and hygiene programs, coupled with evangelism and discipleship, are improving physical and spiritual well-being in rural communities" It looks like in Haiti it is Americans going out to provide aid and evangelise at the same time, though they do also get local churches involved.

Christian Aid: "The earthquake in 2010 had a devastating effect on Haiti, which was already the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. However, slowly but surely, the country is rebuilding and moving on from this disaster. Barriers to development include widespread poverty, environmental degradation, a weak government and deep levels of corruption, but the work of Christian Aid and its partners is making a real difference to the lives of poor Haitians."

You have to go to close to the bottom of the second page ('our work') of the Christian Aid site before faith is even mentioned, and then it is just to emphasise that faith is not allowed to influence the organisation's work: "Many of our partners share Christian Aid’s faith identity, but our programme is inclusive of all faiths and none."

I think I know which approach I find more ethical.

This article raises questions about the activities of Samaritan's Purse in Haiti - apparently preaching at US government-funded facilities.

Operation Christmas Child has also been busy in Haiti. From the website of OCC Canada: Operation Christmas Child is bringing gift-filled shoe boxes and opportunities to tell the Good News of Jesus Christ to impoverished Haitian children and their families. Many of the children receiving these boxes often the first gifts they will have ever received -- will participate in our discipleship program called The Greatest Journey. Since 2009, more than 160,000 shoe box gifts have been delivered to children in Haiti, and in the last two years alone, more than 30,000 Haitian children have made decisions for Christ after participating in The Greatest Journey.

This is also quite an interesting article "Haiti awash in Christian aid, evangelism". It doesn't mention SP specifically, but is critical of organisations which go out with a mainly evangelical focus. Extract: "Bryan Schaaf, a former Peace Corps worker, said he ran into all kinds of missionaries when he was living in Haiti from 2000 to 2002. He recalled one American missionary man living in his village who quietly visited rural areas and helped Haitians build wells.

“They built this large network of wells that wouldn’t otherwise have been there,” said Schaaf. “It was a missionary family that was well accepted by the community, and using sound development principals.”

On the other hand, he said, another American missionary family in the village seemed to focus on countering his own efforts in health education. After he talked to young people in the village about birth control and prevention of AIDS, which is epidemic among Haitian youth, Schaaf learned that the missionaries were following up with a message of their own. “They would hold prayer circles with these adolescents to purge the evil thoughts of condoms from their minds,” he said.

Schaaf, who is back in the States and spends his spare time running a nonprofit consultancy called Haiti Innovation, derided missionaries who lack understanding or respect for Haitian culture and treat the country as their “spiritual sandbox.”

Frankyin Graham is the head of the Samaritan's Purse. He draws or at least did a hefty wage for the privilege. He is also political in urging his followers and suppose people in general to vote for those candidates against abortion and same sex marriages. He seems to be vocal against Islam calling it evil etc. He calls women who have abortions murderers and homosexuals deviant.

If you want to support this guy and what he says and is trying to achieve then knock your socks off.

Brian,

Thank you for your responses..

I like your story of the Imam, and wonder whether when you are thinking about your communications you would be able to say more about the sorts of organisations you work with. For example, are you prepared to work with Catholics? Some protestant evangelical organisationsl are not. If there is a dearth of churches ( and I can see why you would prefer to work through them) whom do you work through?

I'm not adding for information now but trying to be helpful; as below.

I think you should not underestimate the concerns about SP, OCC, it's not just a small group of people on MN. I suspect that having US presidential support at a time of war did not help in Europe, but it is much much broader than that. I think it would make a lot of difference if SP were able to say exactly what goes on and what doesn't, to myth bust but also to ensure that those who use it are content with methods used. You have, I fear, got a long hill to climb as I have heard these doubts expressed by those in other parts of the charity sector.

For what it's worth, although not economically sensible I do shoeboxes with children as it is a great way to get kids into charitable giving but more than that, as there are lots of way of doing that, also to bring home to them that lots of children are far worse off than them.

Personally I think it would make a huge difference if SP UK COMPLETELY cut ties with the US arm of the organisation.

ancientbuchanan - somewhere out in internet land is a story about how OCC/SP bussed a load of Catholic Young people off for a rally and then celebrated how many of them they had managed to get to leave the Catholic church........

Which is why I am amazed that my son's Catholic school does OCC every year.....

exexpat, some of the things that went on in Haiti after the earthquake would turn the stomach of even the most ardent supporter of Western "benevolence", for example, the US Baptists who kidnapped 10 Haitian children for adoption in the US - children who still had parents.

And this from Queen Latifah: "I just want to go and get some of them babies. If you got the hookup, please get me a couple of Haitian kids" .

Thank you for bringing this to people's attention.

And Bling, I sometimes have to pinch myself to remind myself that Franklin Graham is a real person and not a Steve Bell-type caricature.

Never, no!!!!

Honestly?????

If true not just myth and I were your head I'd be doing rotary and cafod, or that clean up the Jordan getting Palestinian and Israeli kids to work together!

Yup, Haiti not brilliant, lots of disaster areas not brilliant either It's tricky. ( quite a lot of my family is involved in this world.)

Ps Brian, yes, when Ds off my hands would love to see a distribution at close quarters.

Found these quotes - I realise they are form a while ago and Brian will say it isn't like that now BUT....

Their poison isn't just directed at Muslims, they refer to Hindus as being "bound by Satan's power"[4] and were caught preying on Catholic earthquake victims in El Salvador in 2001- refusing them temporary homes provided by US AID unless they first attend a half hour evangelising "prayer" session. Afterwards Frankilin Graham gloated that in one village they converted 150 Catholics[5].

Samaritan's Purse used up potential relief money arranging an evangalical concert at the national baseball stadium in Managua. 50,000 children - mainly Catholics - were whisked away in rented buses to the stadium to listen to Graham, who flew in on a private jet, preach his brand of Christianity - asking them to accept Jesus as their saviour and be born again, and be rewarded with a shoebox of gifts and a Bible - the Catholic church was furious.[12]

And then I found THIS!!!
menofmind.com/samaritans-purse-operation-christmas-child-toys-no-pay-no-play/

What about making an ethical loan instead? http://www.kiva.org/about/how This organisation called Kiva allows you to make interest free loans to individuals and small businesses in developing countries.

You can choose who you loan to and when the business takes off, they pay you back and you can lend to somebody else. You can lend as little as £20 I think.

Link didn't work properly.

Given the controversy I wonder why any schools in the UK get involved with OCC when there are other similar options which don't seem to raise this amount of suspicion and debate.

What a depressing article, never.

It's bad enough that shoeboxes are filled with tat that could probably be more cheaply produced in the destination country, but the fact that it is cheap, worthless rubbish is enough to break your heart.

One poster upthread (it might have been on the other, similar thread) even said she put in secondhand stuff. How insulting.

Suburban - both mine say it has to be new stuff - but actually I think something good quality, good condition but second hand might be better than cheap rubbish ...I got gloves for mine in primark - actually paid £2 a pair - but I could have got some for £1 - maybe it was even 2 pairs for £1 - the cheaper ones were really thin and flimsy - wouldn't keep your hands warm or last for very long - I wouldn't have bought them for me (even for a spare pair for in the car etc) - so I got the better ones ...
But maybe in a charity shop I could have got some better quality ones for the same price - or less ...would that have been insulting?

My, my, my, you have been busy while I've been away, haven't you?! So the debate has shifted from Operation Christmas Child to the organisation behind Operation Christmas Child - Samaritan's Purse - to our work in Haiti, to Franklin Graham's salary, his political views? You are now suggesting SP in the UK splits from SP in the US, that SP has an agenda against Muslims, Hindus and Catholics?

Let me ask you something, if this was all true, why is it that Operation Christmas Child continues to grow year on year, reaching more and more children with a gift-filled shoebox?

Do you think that government aid agencies would fund Samaritan's Purse programmes, as they do both here and in the US, if any of this was true?

I hate to break it to you but you can't trust what you read on the Internet; people can and do say anything about anyone, often twisting what is happening to suit their own agenda with impunity, but that is changing.

I am speaking the truth about Operation Christmas Child, I know the organisation, I know the people, I know their hearts, both those employed by Samaritan's Purse and those who give up so much of their time, both here and overseas, to bring joy into children's lives. This may not suit some of you in here and that's fine; I regret that there are some things we will never agree on. But I know that there are people watching this thread who are fed up with this annual debate and who are glad to see someone taking on those that seek to destroy the good work that we do....

ancientbuchanan, I'm not sure when your DS will be 'off your hands', I don't even know what a DS is (!) but feel free to send me an email on here if you want to discuss further...

SuburbanRhonda, if we see second hand articles in shoeboxes, these are removed and replaced with similar, new items donated from a variety of sources providing free 'fillers' for shoeboxes....

ancientbuchanan, on Operation Christmas Child, Samaritan's Purse works through National Leadership Teams (NLTs) which are set up in each country. Each NLT comprises church leaders from, typically, five different denominations active in their respective countries and it is their job to ensure broad participation in these counties. Being somewhat removed from specific country implementations, I don't know that we work with Catholic churches, but I don't know that we don't either!

Kind regards, Brian

PS. Thanks for your support!

Brian it is all one and the same... the reason I dislike and distrust OCC and SP so much is because of who is at the head of it all.

I'm out.

Dear all, here is an extract from the Operation Christmas Child Guide I wrote for Parents and Teachers last week. It's long but I wanted you to have it, if only to balance the argument

Why we Speak of Hope

In accordance with Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the UN, and Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights, we are committed to religious freedom as a fundamental human right. Thus, every person has the right to form their own religious convictions or ideological commitment - free and undisturbed - and to exercise their religion or belief and act according to its laws, including advertising it.

As a Christian organisation, our work is motivated by our Christian convictions and allows for the direct or indirect explanation of the foundations of our faith. However, and vitally, we reject any form of coercion, manipulation or exploitation of an emergency or a person’s situation in order to share our faith.

In accordance with Article 14 of the UN Children's Convention we "respect the child's right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion".

As Christians, as part of the worldwide Church of God, we believe that charity and love are entwined together and therefore we encounter people in need in both word and deed.

Our Commitment to Share our Faith Appropriately, with Respect
We are committed to the code of conduct, jointly produced by the World Council of Churches and the World Evangelical Alliance, for 'Christian witness in a multi-religious world' on 29th June, 2011.

This is introduced with these words: "Mission belongs to the very being of the church. Proclaiming the word of God and witnessing to the world is essential for every Christian. At the same time, it is necessary to do so according to Gospel principles, with full respect and love for all human beings.”

Why we Talk about our Faith

The desire for vibrant, healthy relationships unites all people. However our reality is often shaped by the hopelessness of disturbed and disrupted relationships. Sustainable, reliable relationships therefore need to be restored.

This begins with our relationship with God, who introduces himself to us in the Bible - and Jesus Christ. By conquering death, Jesus offers renewal and the hope of life beyond death to anyone who wants it.

For us, if we fail to carry this message of hope, which is firmly established in the Bible, would be like depriving people of the opportunity to hear how their relationship with their Creator can be restored and how they can have hope.

Without this message of hope we can only offer short term help; with it we can offer long term hope. For Samaritan’s Purse help and hope go together. That is why we speak of faith.

neverputasockinatoaster, before you go, please give me the background to your MN name?! There's wisdom there! Thanks, Brian

Ok Brian, so Franklyn Graham who is the head of Samaritans Purse which runs OCC doesn't call women who have abortions murderers, doesn't state that homosexuals are deviant, actively campaigns against abortion and same sex weddings? Do you really think most UK parents even realise this, many seem to think OCC s run by The Samaritans.