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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to hate charity Christmas shoe boxes?

314 replies

unlucky83 · 30/09/2013 17:55

We get asked to one from the school and from Sunday school ...2 Dcs that is 4 of them...last year I cut it down to 2 - doing the same this year
I really really really hate doing them...but DDs are upset if we don't ...
(at school they have an assembly where the people organising it talk to the DCs about them)...
We wander round the shops/supermarket making sure we get all the essentials on the list - buying the cheapest stuff there is ...kind of think hats/gloves/underwear are probably made by the people we send them back to..
I know I'm not on my own - everyone I know who does one says they do the same ...
Even then each box costs at least £30 ...could the money not be better spent directly by the charity buying good quality stuff that is going to last?
On the lists they say extras - like PJs - how the hell do you fit a pair of PJs for a teenager in a shoe box with all the other stuff...I find I can never fit much 'extra' in...usually just sweets as treats - good job they get toothpaste and toothbrushes or they'd have rotten teeth to add to their misery..

Then you have to find a box...then wrap the bloody things...
I just find it really difficult to wrap the box and lid separately and not get an end result that looks like it has been chewed by the dog...just spent the best part of 30 mins wrapping one that looks like a 2 yr old did it...

So am I being unreasonable to hate them and dread the leaflets coming home?

OP posts:
gooner1956 · 13/10/2013 17:40

Exexpat, I'd like to see those polls, who conducted the survey/s, who was surveyed, that kind of thing. You have heard the maxim: Lies, damn lies and statistics? I have done a lot of research in my time and I would have found it so easy to skew results, if I had had a mind to do so. The way questions are worded, the way they are asked, who is asked and who is conducting the analysis are key considerations for quality research...

I don't doubt that Franklin Graham's views are at odds with the many people in the UK, we live in a post-Church age, but I question the overwhelming support you say people in the UK have for gay marriage. The furore when David Cameron forced that agenda through Parliament when he had no mandate from the Electorate to do so suggests he may be in trouble at the next Election. I certainly won't be voting for him next time around!

And let me say this again. I have already told you and others that I believe homophobia is a sin; as a Christian, I am not here to judge anyone but to show God's love for all humanity. I have gay friends and I have a real heart for what they are going through and have sought to understand why. God loves them but loves them too much to see them continue in that lifestyle; I have never met a gay person who, when you get to really know them, is truly comfortable with that lifestyle. Brian

gooner1956 · 13/10/2013 17:43

Good on you salad! Appreciate your support.... Brian

gooner1956 · 13/10/2013 17:45

Hey ravenak is back! Still quoting me out of context I see...

gooner1956 · 13/10/2013 17:50

Why is it that when anyone shows any kind of support for OCC there are people on this thread who seek to ridicule them, shut them up and drive them away. You know who you are!

What happened to people being entitled to hold their own opinion and allowing others to do the same. It's called tolerance and this place would be all the more interesting and dynamic for more of that!

Brian

gooner1956 · 13/10/2013 17:53

Good on you beakysmum, great post!

gooner1956 · 13/10/2013 17:54

Hey Alemci, another great post, thank you!

gooner1956 · 13/10/2013 18:09

Blingbang, if you ever had the chance to meet Franklin Graham you would find him a gentle, quiet, courteous man, a man who is passionate about God and who has great compassion for people. This isn't the kind of image being portrayed of him in Mumsnet, but it is the truth. I have met him several times and I have to tell you I do not understand why there are people in Mumsnet who have such a dislike for him.

Who are the people who 'scare' you? What are you scared of? I have to ask: 'What freedoms do you value that you are so scared of losing?' I genuinely want to know... Thanks, Brian

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 13/10/2013 18:22

I have never met a gay person who, when you get to really know them, is truly comfortable with that lifestyle. Brian

Shock

Wtf.

Keep talking, Brian, you are doing more damage to your cause than you could imagine. Before I read your daft witterings I thought the worst thing about the shoeboxes were their massive impracticality and inefficiency.

kiriwawa · 13/10/2013 18:33

I'm usually on these threads every year but couldn't be arsed with the bunfight this year.

I'm delighted to see that you've hoisted yourself upon your own petard Brian at last. Schools have a duty under the Equality Act. So I think this is OCC off to Room 101.

Ta-rah!

Coupon · 13/10/2013 18:42

Somehow I doubt this is the real Brian on here.

Strumpetron · 13/10/2013 18:43

Probably been said but I hate Operation Christmas Child because it uses the needs of the children to force religion.

ravenAK · 13/10/2013 18:50

Not out of context, Brian.

Just keep these little gems coming.

Although I'm definitely starting to wonder if you're actually One of Us - one rationale behind your posts would be that you're not, in fact, Brian Bennett at all, but a troll who dislikes OCC more than any of us & is playing a long game to totally discredit them Wink.

ravenAK · 13/10/2013 18:51

x-post Coupon! Grin.

Coupon · 13/10/2013 18:52

Samaritans Purse is a fundamentalist organisation (i.e. they take the Bible literally word-for-word). You can spot this straight away at the start of the Statement of Faith "We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God." This approach definitely doesn't represent all Christians.

Statement of Faith

Ethos

Coupon · 13/10/2013 18:54

Having said that about fundamentalism, much as I disagree with that form of religion, I can see OCC are attempting to help the poor in the way they believe to be best. So I have mixed feelings about it Confused I think I'd rather donate to Christian Aid though.

exexpat · 13/10/2013 19:06

Brian - there have been many, many polls on same-sex marriage, asking different combinations of questions, some obviously biased one way or another, some trying to be neutral. The results therefore obviously vary, but if you put them all together, there is no doubt that many more people in the UK support same-sex marriage than oppose it.

Amongst Conservative voters, the ratio may tip very slightly towards opposition, but only slightly see this yougov poll which gives you the option to click on tabs to break down results by voting intention - while overwhelming majorities of Labour and LibDem voters support it. Even most of the Conservative voters who oppose gay marriage are not planning to change their voting intentions because of it, though I imagine UKIP will pick up support from some of them.

That poll doesn't break down by age, but all the polls I have seen show strongest support amongst people in their 20s, declining with age. Women are more supportive than men, and Scots are more supportive than the rest of the UK (one of the polls I linked to was a Scottish one).

Where Cameron has more of a problem is probably amongst paid-up members of the Conservative party, who are overwhelming older (average age 68) and socially conservative, and therefore in the group least supportive of same-sex marriage. I think it was quite brave of David Cameron to push through something which has public support but goes against some of the more traditional elements of his party (it's about the only thing he has done which I approve of); perhaps the growing lobby of gay Conservative MPs had something to do with it.

BlingBang · 13/10/2013 19:08

Yes, have been wondering if Brian is who he says he is.

exexpat · 13/10/2013 19:12

Oh, and I am also Shock at Brian's statement that "I have never met a gay person who, when you get to really know them, is truly comfortable with that lifestyle."

For what its worth, I have one couple of gay friends who have been together for 40 years and seem pretty damn comfortable with their lifestyle, actually.

I think part of the problem may be that someone like Brian, who probably lives and works in an environment populated entirely by evangelical Christians, rarely encounters anyone with fundamentally different views and lifestyles.

exexpat · 13/10/2013 19:17

It is tempting to think this might be a particularly ingenious and drawn-out troll, but I think the appearance of the new schools leaflet on the OCC website does seem to indicate that he is genuine.

Brian, would you like to do something to confirm that you are actually who you say you are? I think someone on this thread or the other one mentioned your twitter account - maybe you could tweet something to confirm it.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 13/10/2013 19:27

I think he is almost certainly genuine, but I have reported him to MNHQ - they can shoot him an email and he can confirm to them very easily.

SuburbanRhonda · 13/10/2013 20:16

beaky, because you've now resorted to sarcasm, I reckon you know you're being unreasonable. After all, if, as you say, you agree that there are times when evangelism is inappropriate but that seems to be ok when you say it, how can it then be "censorship" when someone else says it? There is definitely a word for that Wink

And by the way, you couldn't be further from the mark by guessing that I "don't have much experience of prayer".

Anyway, just wanted to say I'm so pleased to hear you have a gay friend because that makes you an authority on gay issues, doesn't it? A bit like our friend Brian, with all his desperately unhappy gay mates Smile

beakysmum · 13/10/2013 21:26

LOL Suburban, I definitely wasn't intending to be sarcastic!

I was thinking as I typed that there are times when evangelism is inappropriate, I wonder what I define them as? I''ll probably be mulling that over for a while, but off the top of my head I would say it's inappropriate

  • when the person(s) targeted have made it clear that they do not wish to engage
  • in a work context
  • when there is co-ersion involved (you will only get X if you sign up).
  • when you are with people in a setting of another religion (e.g. mosque / synagogue / church).

However, so far all these situations are already covered by existing guidelines or law, so why are we looking to restrict religious activity further? Especially within religious charities? And what is the word if it's not censorship?!

I think the difficulty is that where you would like religion limited is within religious charities. These charities are run by volunteers mostly, giving of their time and money and they should be allowed to run as they see fit.

okay, okay, I think it ok to OFFER prayer and give church invites with shoe boxes (do marketing / evangelism) so long as it is done sensitively, while you don't as you feel it exploits the vulnerable. I guess we're not going to agree Smile.

Apologies for assuming you did not have much experience of prayer, but you will perhaps then understand why people are keen to offer both prayer with a person and prayer at a later date.

beakysmum · 13/10/2013 21:28

PS I have more than one gay friend too!!!!!!! Must be a real expert!

SuburbanRhonda · 13/10/2013 22:04

Ok, beaky, my claws are back in now Wink

The only point I would strongly disagree with in your post is where you say that because volunteers give their time and money (not sure what you mean about the latter), that means they "should be able to run as they see fit".

So let me get this right. Are you actually saying that in your view, volunteers, uniquely amongst employees, should be allowed free rein to work to their own rules, because they are volunteers?

Please tell me this isn't what you meant.

beakysmum · 13/10/2013 22:10

Haha yes, Suburban, just been talking about this to DH.....

No I certainly don't mean that being a volunteer gives a person the right to do whatever they want, be that kiddy fiddling, theft, or anything else at all!!!

But then those would be crimes that are already covered by law. That's kinda what I meant in my 21.26 post about inappropriate evangelism.

I just think that it should be possible to offer prayer & invites to a religious event if you are working for a religious charity and not limit what that charity wants to do.

(Though actually I do totally take on board your concerns about exploiting people in vulnerable situations. )