To think using donor eggs is selfish

[Dilemma81]

I have had multiple miscarriages. I have been trying for a baby for over 5 years and the last ivf round has now failed. Although i’m in my early 30s, using an egg donor has been mentioned several times now because it seems my eggs are not good quality. Whilst I wouldn’t ever judge other people’s choices for using an egg donor, I have been up all night wondering about the ethics of going down this route for us. I don’t have religious beliefs so that’s not my problem. But is it selfish to go down this route? If I think about the child, how would they feel when they are a certain age to learn that I’m not their biological mother? Part of them would surely be missing and they surely would be wondering who they are. On the other hand, I’m desperate for my husband to be a dad and I know he would be up for the idea of donor eggs. But again, I keep thinking that nature is telling us something and perhaps it is wrong to try and defy it. Very interested to hear what people think.

wow, you all have been very supportive, thank you. Some really interesting thoughts especially all the scientific talk. CHJR you are completely right and 'selfish' is not the word I was looking for or should have used. I also want to personally thank you for taking the time to write so much thoughtful information and raising a few questions. I have already re-read your post several times as it has really made me think. Infertility and miscarriages have brought massive guilt. I feel terrible for my husband who has watched most our friends have babies and when I see him with kids, it makes my heart bleed. He is a very kind man and has never blamed me or been unsupportive but still the guilt hangs over me like a dark cloud. I actually raised the idea of adoption to him and he said he would prefer to go down the donor egg route. It is really important to him to pass on his genetics. I wonder whether part of me does want to make it up to him. But you really raise important points about the potential imbalance of parenting. It's all something to explore.

Anyway thanks to everyone for their thoughts. I have really been (over) thinking so much about this because a very good friend of mine and her sister found out that their Dad couldn't have children and so their mum used donor sperm back in the 70s. They found out in their 30s and it came as a very distressing shock to them. My friend is fine about it now and strangely she always had an inkling that something wasn't 'right' but her sister has gone to absolute pieces and sadly has hit the bottle.
Again, it just raises things to think about. But let's face it kids can go to pieces or go down the wrong path even with the most loving conventional family so nothing is a given.

I am an adopter. I have a wonderful son and don;t regret a moment of heartache that ended up meaning he became mine.

But...

I don't advocate for adoption (and I know few adopters who do) because you really have to be ready for it - you do yourself and any prospective child a big disservice to go into an adoption because you feel its the "better" thing to do than use a donor and give birth yourself.

When (if!) you're ready to embrace adoption you know it (IMVHO!) and until that point you should investigate all the options that are open to you.

Don't underestimate the benefits to you and a child of growing inside you and being with you from birth - not having that is a big deal and whilst its not an insurmountable one, it would be a fool who chose to ignore it.

Anyone who chooses to give birth instead of adopting is selfish so put that to one side and think through the things which bother you. Thinking about telling children who are adopted or donor concieved has changed quite dramatically since the 70's. Talk to someone at the Donor Conception Network who should be quite helpful and might be able to put you in touch with some members who have older children who know all the facts about their conception.

Good luck

Hi, Dilemma.

Would you like us to alter the title for you?

Agree with blingblang. It's easy to say that biology doesn't matter, that it's the time and love put into parenting that counts. But DC might not feel that way. They should have the option to find out about their biological parent if they want to.

Also strongly disagree with lying to children about this.

It is far too simplistic to suggest that all a child needs is love and that biology plays no part. While biology certainly isn’t the be-all and end-all, it is human nature to wonder about one’s heritage and parentage.

It’s also far too simplistic to suggest that an egg is just a cell – it may start out as just a cell but it has the potential to become a child – a child who may one day want to know where he/she has come from.

I actually feel far more uncomfortable with the notion of donating eggs/sperm than receiving them (although I personally couldn’t do either) because it’s like giving away your biological children, people justify it on the basis it’s just a cell but actually it isn’t. People wouldn’t hand over their actual children to a complete stranger so why their biological material, allowing a child to potentially be born into the world who has a whole biological family they know nothing about and who might not want to know them if they came knocking on the door in eighteen years time. Also, what about existing children, is it right to essentially give away your eggs in the knowledge that those eggs/sperm might result in other siblings with whom they will be denied a relationship?

Wrt people who go down the route of using donor eggs/sperm, IMO it depends on how they go about it. I don’t judge someone who goes down that route in this country where donors are volunteers who are counselled in terms of their donation. (while I might not agree with the concept of donation I do think that if it is done then it should be done properly and under strict guidelines), however I think going to Thailand/india/ to buy a donor egg is utterly abhorrent. The women who donate these eggs generally come from deprived backgrounds and are exploited for their eggs which are then bought by rich western couples. I don’t care how desperate someone is for a child, nothing justifies going too those lengths IMO. Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean that it should.

Op I am assuming that you are going down the route of donation in this country, and you are wise to consider the implications not only on you but on any potential child you might bring into the world as a result. You are right to be questioning whether it’s the right decision for you and your family, because there are so many different implications, and no, having a child that is loved is simply not enough. But whatever you decide it will be the right decision for you.

As for comparing a donated egg to adoption – of course there are no similarities. I am often at these people who talk about all the unwanted children in the world and question why people don’t just adopt them, as if it’s as simple as just going to the clinic and picking out a child.

I worry whether my family and friends would be as judgemental as these people if we went down this route.

I have a son via donor sperm and I'm a single mother (working in a catholic school!). I am very open about his method of conception, as I don't want him growing up thinking that there is anything "wrong" with how he was born. Not one person, including my priest, has said anything negative to me about having a child on my own, and all have been incredibly supportive. I spoke to our priest before going ahead and he said "how can bringing a much wanted child in to this world ever be seen as a bad thing by God?". The general response by family and friends is "that's cool" and it's amazing how many strangers (women) open up and start asking questions as it is something they have considered themselves.

Think of it this way - if someone judges you for it, are they someone that you would want in your life, or your child's life, anyway?

I have a DD with a dad who doesn't really bother with her.
The relationship was occasionally violent when I fell pregnant (unplanned), and it worsened in early pregnancy. We split up, and I knew she wasn't going to have an ideal dad, or likely a good relationship with him, but I continued with the pregnancy.
I would say that is much more selfish than using an egg to bring a much planned, wanted by everyone and loved baby into the world, but I doubt DD will regret being born (except in future teenage tantrums!).

Regardless of any issues we've had along the way, I wouldn't change anything about DD. If she had been born at a different time, or with different "genetics" she wouldn't be her, and I'm sure you would feel the same about a baby you had, doner egg or not.

Any potential egg doner babies you give birth to and bring up will be your children just as much as DD is mine.
All DNA really is is appearance and medical traits, their personalities, expressions, morals, life experiences and security will be built by you and DH.

Can I just add to this by saying what absolute joy a donor conceived child (or any child) can bring to a family.
My daughter is donor conceived and I wouldn't swap her for a child I conceived myself in a million years. She's funny and loving and impish and smart and she makes us a family.
The road to having a child can be and has been for you horribly difficult. Having her to love makes it worth it.
We have been very lucky and ill always be grateful to the anonymous lady who helped us have our child. She will know about her origins and we will support her as best we can with any issues she has, as any parents would.
All the best OP with whatever decision you make.

I think if you feel you can't do it yourself then you certainly shouldn't do it. It doesn't mean it's selfish though; it's a personal decision and as others have shown on here, can bring deep joy and fulfilment when donor and receiver are both comfortable about it

I imagine those who go down the donar route probably do consider all the diffent angles and issues it could bring. Probably just on here that folk gloss over it and say it's just a cell etc. And of course it's more than just a cell, it souds so blasé just saying that and make lt of any future issues any child might have. Unless you have faced to being able to conceive yourself, we probably don't know what lengths we would go to, to have a baby if we were desperate so i understand why people use donated eggs or sperm, I find it harder to understand why people donate - it's not like giving blood.

I am an egg donor, and two of my eggs have helped conceive two gorgeous children who have made their parents' lives full and happy. We keep in contact and I am their "aunty". Their parents will tell these children about our story, they have actually started with the older one in terms she can understand. There is nothing selfish about conceive with the help of a donor egg: the donor does this selflessly and wants a family to have a chance at pregnancy, birth and maternity/paternity. The children conceived ill not have feelings of abandonment or confusion about their origins, because it is an open and honest process, and they will know that they were very loved, very wanted children. Not only that, but if the families agree to keep in touch, they will have an extra person in their life (an aunty, or "fairy godmother") who will also consider them special.

For me personally, it is one of the most worthwhile things I have done in my life. The happiness it creates, with just a tiny short-lived discomfort for me, has been mind-boggling. If I lived another 100 lives I would do it another 100 times.

But you don't know they will be very loved (I'm sure that the majority are) and that they will have a happy childhood. Do none on these parents have the potential to be abusive, split up etc - just like any other parents?

I know of a woman who had twins after years of trying to conceive then going down the IVF route. Children very much wanted, then after they were born he couldn't hack it and left her and the babies.

And why would you be happy to have hundreds of children who have half your genetic make up walking around - I do find that strange.

Anyone has the potential to split up or be abusive. Can we limit everyone from having children if they have the potential to split up in the future, or is it just those that need to use donor eggs or sperm that you want to limit?

What is selfish is those who have not have any problems conceiving thinking they have some right to dictate the use of perfectly legal forms of conception for other people.

The point I was making is that many have said, -this child is much wanted, will be much loved and have a wonderful happy childhood. We don't know all that like we don't know what lies ahead for our own relationships and children.

I said I can understand people desperately wanting a child and using donors, I find it harder to understand the donor. i'm not against this but people soft coating it and saying it's just a cell or that raising the child is all that matters isn't exactly true - maybe not to the child who has to come to terms with their conceptions and that they have other genetic family out there. And it's only right that someone considering using a donor or being a donor considers all this.

Would they be just as dismissive about issues many adopted children face, or children who have an absent bio father?

I'm also a single parent to a donor-conceived child. I can't speak for all of us obviously but I've never met one that hasn't thought long and hard about the potential issues for our children as they grow up. It's not something you do lightly or on a whim.

Good grief, do you think I suddenly woke up one morning and went "hey, just for a lark I might go get knocked up." It took me years of thinking about it, then years of actually trying to conceive. Where I live, there is compulsory counselling before being able to access donor sperm or eggs. We think about how to discuss it with our children, we discuss it with other parents who have chosen this same path. It is law here that DS will be able to access his records when he is 18 if he chooses. We have already made contact with his sister from the same donor and catch up with her and her mother regularly and I'm in contact with a group of other women that live near me who are either trying to conceive or already have a child or children. It's not something you do without having to consider all aspects of your decision first.

Why on earth would I consider a child born as a result of my donation mine? My children are the children I decided to conceive, to gestate and to raise. Not the genetic material I gave to someone else so that she could have a child. She is that child's mother. Not me. That is absolutely clear to me, despite the fact that there is somewhere out there, right now, a woman who is pregnant using one of my eggs. I have never had even the slightest parental twinge.

Just out of interest, bio half family, do donor conceived children know about them? I know it is very unlikely but I would also worry a bit about the possibility of them meeting and marrying in the future. Maybe that is over thinking though, and besides, plenty of men spread their seed far and wide without looking back.

I have a friend (single) who used donor sperm and now has a little girl. At first her family were all dead against it, to the point of disowning her if she went ahead. Once the baby arrived though everyone came round immediately and how she was conceived didn't matter, everyone loves her and she is treated no differently to her cousins. My friend though says she thinks about the donor all the time and is always wondering what he must be like and trying to see signs of him in her daughter.

Another friend of mine is tracing her family tree, her mum is adopted and I asked what do people do in those cases, which line do you follow? She said that genealogists always follow the blood line and that's what she wanted to do. It seemed a bit sad the her nan and grandad's line seem to be written out. Donor conception is a bit more complicated though and besides it might seem a bit silly worrying about what grandchildren and beyond will think.

From memory you aren't allowed a more than a certain number of live births per donor (I think its 10 now) so the dramatic examples of hundreds of people wandering around genetically related to you is impossible - unless you're just a bit of a lad down the local in which case its entirely possible. Genghis Khan manged to impregnate half of central Asia but to be fair he had a head start being a dictator and all...

Adults conceived by donor are allowed to check with HFEA that there is no sibling relationship with another adult.

A few people have said things like "of course DNA is important" - well yes obviously it is to you but it isn;t to everyone. I know thats hard to get your head around when it IS important to you but it really isn;t important to everyone. Of course you don;t know in advance whether it will be important to your child so you do indeed have to think through how you intend to handle it. But as someone pointed out above - studies show those children who were told (adopted or donor conceived) very early (in fact too early to really understand it) seem to be much more accepting of the situation than those who found out later.

Also those who had stories of ther grandparents dimples passed down to them from their mothers laps from an early age - not everyone has living grandparents or even grandparents that their parents knew and no-one wrings their hands about it, also lots of families don;t share particular physical characteristics. My mother had NEVER said to me "ooh you're just like Granny Smith with your wild brown hair and cross eyes" because to be honest she doesn't remember clearly enough what Granny Smith looked like.

Ironically DS (who looks about as different from me as its possible to look) is frequently told my people "you're so much like your mum"!

Ken - family trees for adoptees are often done as branches and roots - with birth family being the roots and adoptive family being the branches. No need to exclude one if you have some information you can follow.

kew we get that too - DSD and I frequently get stopped and told that she looks just like me, she has my nose etc. DSD thinks it is hilarious!

Well when they find it out then they wouldn't exist if you hadn't done it would they? So really, not selfish at all, because if you hadn't made the decision to do it they wouldn't exist would they?

Unless they end up having such a terrible life they wished they never existed then they will probably just be thankful that you gave them life, no matter what the ins and outs of it are.

Annakin, you raise interesting points, all of which we discussed with the counsellor we saw before we went down the donor conception route. The teenager thing was one I particularly thought. Of course, it might well be thrown at dh when our three are hormonally challenged. I actually think its more likely that they'll say to me "I wish I wasn't genetically related to you". But there you go-teenagers will throw something at us for absolute certain and dh is well adjusted and secure enough in his parenting to cope with it.

I guess I'm better placed than some to understand how biology does and doesn't matter. My parents and I have a hugely challenging relationship and I have often considered not seeing them at all. Dh's parents are the rock that supports us both and I call or text dmil pretty much daily. She is the one I want to tell about proud or exasperated dc m

Sorry- proud or exasperated moments whilst I tell my parents out of duty.
I don't know what the future holds. None of us knows what we would or wouldn't do until we're there facing it. I am certain that we have three amazing children. I am certain that dh is an amazing father. I am certain that we went into this with as much careful consideration as possible. I actually think it would hurt no one to have counselling to think through becoming parents by whatever route.