To think using donor eggs is selfish

[Dilemma81]

I have had multiple miscarriages. I have been trying for a baby for over 5 years and the last ivf round has now failed. Although i’m in my early 30s, using an egg donor has been mentioned several times now because it seems my eggs are not good quality. Whilst I wouldn’t ever judge other people’s choices for using an egg donor, I have been up all night wondering about the ethics of going down this route for us. I don’t have religious beliefs so that’s not my problem. But is it selfish to go down this route? If I think about the child, how would they feel when they are a certain age to learn that I’m not their biological mother? Part of them would surely be missing and they surely would be wondering who they are. On the other hand, I’m desperate for my husband to be a dad and I know he would be up for the idea of donor eggs. But again, I keep thinking that nature is telling us something and perhaps it is wrong to try and defy it. Very interested to hear what people think.

I had a consultation today as I am hopefully going to donate eggs. I really think it cant be selfish to have a child this way. You must really really want to be a parent to do this, and not just sort of bumble into it as so many of us do otherwise. That's surely a good thing for a child, to be so utterly wanted?

I completely agree wossname, I often think the same about lesbian/gay partnerships who decide to have children - it's that much more difficult, those children must be so desperately wanted.

I don't think it's selfish (I don't realy understand why you do). But it is you not your DH who would have to go through IVF to conceive like this so if your not comfortable with it I would say don't do it. Having conceived naturally (when you miscarried) do they not think you might again. Early thirties seems young to be thinking of donor eggs.

Well I have donated, and no, I don't think it would be selfish to use donor eggs. FWIW, I would completely understand if my recipient never chose to tell her baby/ies how they had been conceived. I don't think she has any moral duty to explain that she is not genetically related to them. I'm just glad that I could help her on the way to conceiving what must be desperately wanted children.

Men have been raising children that aren't their own for thousands of years.

I should add that obviously for almost all this time it hasn't been possible to know who a child's father is anyway.

I think if I had been donor conceived I would rather not know.

Just to point out that early thirties isn't especially young to need donor eggs. I was 35 when I found out that I had premature ovarian failure (hence lack if success and response to previous cycles with own eggs) and that using a donor was the only way for me to conceive.

I do think that adoption and donor conception are very very different, but the similarity is the lack of genetic connection to one or both parents, and the implications of that are basically the same. I'm not trying to overcompare, but some of the stories told by adult adoptees and adult's concieved by gamete donation are VERY similar, in terms of feelings etc. So I think some comparison is helpful.

I should add that obviously for almost all this time it hasn't been possible to know who a child's father is anyway

It is interesting seeing where new technology is taking us. It's entirely possible that within the next generation-2 generations, our genetic make-up will be far more understood and contribute much more to our medical treatment. Even now, there are popular webistes which offer analysis of your genes and match you with genetic relatives who have given their DNA (23andme for instance). We (humans) are not going to reign in or stop this advance in genetic technology until we can do everything that it is physically possible to do with our genes. That means that my grandchildren could one day have their genome sequenced for them and have it on their medical records, and know all sorts of things about themselves and have their medical treatments specially tailored for their genetic profile etc. One day in a few generations, it could be unheard of to not know about your own DNA, and what it means for you, and whether you are genetically related to your closest relatives.

Anyone thinking of not telling their children now, needs to seriously think about the future. The world does not stand still (for another comparison, when i adopted my DD1, there was no such thing as social media and it really was case of 'you can trace at 18+'. Now, less than 20 years later Facebook has lead to adoptees being traced/tracing their birth parents as teens aged 13+ on social media, with huge implications for families)

KenDodd I think if I had been donor conceived I would rather not know

I think the point is that if that is the reality, it is better to know than to find out, as you may well do, from a doctor or relative. I would not like to keep something like that secret from DS because that would be implying there is something wrong or shameful about it, which I do not think there is.

Children do not usually have any difficulty taking in information like this, but they do have a massive problem finding out in later life that they have been lied to.

It really isn't possible to be sure that you can keep such secrets these days (adoption or donor conception). The degree of DNA testing, blood testing/typing thats done already precludes the idea of keeping such a secret - and who knows what will be commonplace in 20 years time - genetic testing as standard?

Finding out your parents lied about such a fundamental thing must be mind-blowing.

And adoption is not hard because we make it hard in the UK (although sometimes we do) but because it is hard.

Adoption is not lovely - it comes from a place of terrible loss for all parties involved that needs a lot of time and attention to heal even for those with the smallest losses.

Of course my child is lovely (as is every child to their parent) but his adoption has not been lovely - it has been a lesson to me in how to help my child learn to live with his adoption and to heal from it where-ever possible and to accommodate it where he cannot. Its a constant journey which sometimes feels like it has no end.

The fact that adoption is necessary is heart-breaking and I struggle at times to deal with the fact that I benefited from something so painful to him and his birth mother.

That is the difference though. Adoption is necessary and can only be beneficial to the child in having a family rather than growing up in care. With using donor's, you are going out of your way to create a child knowing that the child could have problems coming to terms with the circumstances of their genetic make up.

Again, not against donars and would probably have considered it myself if it had been necessary. But it is an issue and one the op is aware of and trying to come to grips with.

Could is the operative word here. There must be about 10 threads a week on MN where mothers are talking about the unsuitable donors they've chosen to be the 'father' to their children. And yet, I've never heard anyone chastise another poster for choosing to procreate with a man who looks like they're going to be a pretty hopeless father.

All families are different and being loved and wanted goes a long way IMO

As an aspiring scientist I love the discovery of DNA and how it works but I hate that there has grown with it the belief that it is so key to parental identity. Genes do not equal parenthood in it's most meaningful sense, day to day experience is so much more crucial in the bringing up of a child.

Kewcumber, I totally agree with u about the DNA stuff. I have a friend with cancer who has recently done loads of family genetic testing due to the prevalence of cancer in her family - imagine if from those tests they turned round and said "but these people are genetically related to you in anyway" !

I'm having this v conversation with a friend who's dh is being completely unreasonable about not telling their DC DD about her origins - they're sitting on a time bomb .

Aren't

I just don't get it. The baby is yours, your blood feeds it, your body makes it grow. You will (may) use your own milk to make it grown once its born.
You will be its mum forever.

How can the fact that its not your egg outweigh all that?

I have offered friends of ours my eggs as they are struggling to conceive and they are considering it. If they do I wouldn't in any way think of the baby as mine.

What about adoption - is that selfish? Wanting a child and looking after one who, for whatever reason, cannot live with its parents.

Bloody selfish gits parents the lots of them

An egg is not a child. It's just an egg. It will be fertilised with your husband's sperm. That fertilised egg, that embryo lives inside you for 9 months. He/she will know YOU as the mother, not the woman who held one part of her in her ovaries.

Purplehonesty - I don't think it outweighs who raised you but only time will tell how the child feels and deals with it. You might not have a problem donating your eggs, your friends might be happy with the outcome. You all have control and a say - the child doesn't. I would hope anyone who goes down this route of donating or using donated eggs considers this.

Just seems that some folk are blasé about this or don't think it could be an issue as they are happy about it.

Surely if you use a donor egg, you be made aware of any relevant health issues/ family health issues of the egg donor?
Other than for obvious reasons of genetic health issues, I honestly cannot see why you would need to tell a child they were conceived in this way. What exactly would you be hoping to gain from telling them? To me, THAT would be selfish.
The child would be loved and wanted, so what would be the point?
If it was me, I wouldn't need to know.

I quite agree that trying to keep gamete donation a secret from a child is a terrible mistake, given the way modern medical science is evolving - it is almost inevitable that they will discover you've been lying.

The HFEA looked into it in a lot of detail and talked to a lot of donor conceived children before they decided that egg donation was ethically justified but only if it was not anonymous.

I really feel for you; I've treated patients going through miscarriages & I've also worked in subfertility clinics & some of the things I've seen have really touched me.

I can completely understand the need to have your own baby (as opposed to adoption). It's amazing to feel your baby grow & move inside you, I'm sitting here bf ds & it's one of the best experiences ever. My friend adopted & missed out on all those experiences, she says she feels sad that she never gave birth etc as those were 'womenly' rites of passage that she'd just assumed she'd have. (although she loves the adopted child to pieces).

Personally I don't have an issue with egg donation. I believe that if you went down that route when you felt the baby move, gave birth etc that you'd instantly think of the baby as yours, & feel such a bond with it. I think that as long as the child is loved that you would always be mummy & that they wouldn't suddenly pine for some women that they've never met.

Good luck sweetie.

After my first and only experience of child birth, I was so traumatised from the 72 hours of agony, I wished that science would soon discover an artificial womb and parents could see their baby grow from an embryo to full term in the antinatal lab. < Always loved science fiction>

I have the utmost respect and admiration for the women on here who have donated eggs or are in the process of donating. You are doing an amazing thing, helping make a new life and giving such a wonderful gift to others . I'm past the age I can donate now, but I wish it's something id known more about and thought more about when I was younger.

Quickdowntownson - I've been on both sides of this. My family kept secrets from me and it was very painful finding out. Thing is, things kept secret have a habit of coming out anyway, usually at a point of pressure when no ones really thinking properly. There is plenty of anectdotal evidence, and possibly research too, to suggest that children who have their donor conception shared through their childhood from being tiny, in age appropriate ways of course, are very at ease with it. They are often curious to know more about the donor, but have strong parental relationships with those who bring them up.

Those who are told later on are often upset and feel secrets have been kept and that they then can't trust their parents. The older donor conceived "children" often had their beginnings shrouded in secrecy and these are often the ones who have spoken out. But if you read some of the stories by teenagers and young adults who have been told the truth (on donor conception network website) there is quite a different story.
I get the logic that makes people not want to tell and have experienced a very strong longing myself to be "normal". It's a very personal decision.