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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Teacher's family accompanying school trip

268 replies

Trifle · 26/09/2013 19:25

DS1 (age 13) went on a school trip today to the zoo. One of the 6 teachers accompanying the 104 children on the trip took his wife and two young children.

Does anyone know what the legal ratio of teachers to children is for this age?

I think it is highly unprofessional to do this as the teacher spent the majority of time with his family and not supervising the children.

If the ratio is 1:17 then he should have been acting as a teacher first and foremost. If it is 1:20 then, fine, but really, a day off at the zoo just because a school trip happens to be going somewhere fun for his kids.

I'm pretty peeved at this as I had to pay for the trip and wonder if I am paying for his family too.

What would you do ?

OP posts:
scarlettsmummy2 · 26/09/2013 19:27

I wouldn't care. How do you know he spent the entire day with his family??? Your child is 13, not 5.

curlew · 26/09/2013 19:27

"I think it is highly unprofessional to do this as the teacher spent the majority of time with his family and not supervising the children."

How do you know?

And how much supervision do 13 year olds need in an enclosed environment like the zoo?

enjolraslove · 26/09/2013 19:30

A trip like a zoo the ratio is probably 1:20 but may even be higher (1:25?). If his wife was there too isn't it more likely he was doing his job and she had his kids? I would imagine you were not paying for them- more likely the school had bought x tickets but didn't manage to sell them all so had spaces. Won't have affected the cost to you but meant his family could go for the reduced cost that a school trip attracts.

Caitycat · 26/09/2013 19:32

What Scarlett said, his wife was looking after his dcs so if he had been needed he would have been available but otherwise he was just a presence keeping an eye on children just in case which he could do even if with his family at the same time. Children of that age don't need escorting to toilets etc.

SilverApples · 26/09/2013 19:32

It's the ratio of adults to children, not teachers. So how many adults did they have?
How do you know he spent the day with his family, was he in charge of a group at the same time?

Tinlegs · 26/09/2013 19:32

Oh, FFS. He will have paid for them. You child, at 13, will have been fine in the enclosed environment of the zoo. And his wife was there so, presumably, had he been needed for anything, she would have managed their children (you know, as many parents do).

Really, foaming at the mouth about this. What on earth do you do when things really are corrupt or badly managed?

lilackaty · 26/09/2013 19:32

Were the children supervised while going around the zoo? My dd went to Disneyland in Year 7 & they weren't supervised in the park, just sent off & told where & when to meet up. And all the other trips she has been on have been the same.
As far as I know, the school sets the ratios to what they are happy with in terms of risk assessment but the zoo may have their own ratios. I may be wrong about this but I think 1:20 seems more than reasonable. And the teacher was present and available if there was a problem.
What are you thinking of doing?

overmydeadbody · 26/09/2013 19:32

There is no legal adult to child ratio on school trips.

Government guidelines recommend one adult to every 15-20 children in Year 7 and above.

jacks365 · 26/09/2013 19:32

In an enclosed environment at that age I'd expect the children to go round in friendship groups without a teacher. At 14 my daughter did her bronze DofE for that they do a long hike without direct supervision.

SilverApples · 26/09/2013 19:33

The ratio of children to adults should be on the risk assessment that the lead teacher completed for the trip.

Williammarshallsmissus · 26/09/2013 19:33

There is no legal mandate on staffing for school trips - recommended ratio from the teaching union ATL is
For trips to local sites and museums, government guidelines suggest a ratio of one adult adult to every:

six pupils in Years 1 - 3
10-15 pupils in Years 4 - 6
15-20 pupils in Year 7 and above.

Hope your daughter enjoyed her day.

Original poster
Trifle · 26/09/2013 19:33

This is the same teacher who took 20 boys on a cricket tour to South Africa. His wife and children went on that too. Do you think there were a few tickets going spare then too?

OP posts:
janey68 · 26/09/2013 19:33

Your dd is the same age as one of my kids, and they certainly wouldn't feel they needed a teacher breathing down their neck on a trip to the zoo.
Did the teacher taking his family impact on your dd in any way? Or are you just jealous that said teacher involved his family in a nice day out?
I also suspect that the trip took longer than a normal school day (unless you live next door to a zoo!) so presumably the teacher was giving his own time voluntarily.

A pet hate of mine is parents who moan and pick at teachers for no good reason- and I'm not even a teacher

Cremepuff · 26/09/2013 19:35

Bloody hell you're brave.
Criticising a teacher here? Be prepared to be told what an unreliable account your DC will have offered .... For starters.

janey68 · 26/09/2013 19:35

Cross post there. So he volunteered to take a cricket tour lasting - what? - a week? Fortnight? He must have been doing way over contracted hours- don't blame him for making it as enjoyable as possible

Caitycat · 26/09/2013 19:35

Just checked, there are no numbers required by law but councils usually set guidelines of 1 adult to 15-20 children of secondary age so the trip would have been fine even if he hadn't gone.

ravenAK · 26/09/2013 19:36

I took my ds on a recent overnight school trip (I was the teacher in charge).

As a result, I wasn't counted in the ratios - we had 1:9 including me, so a perfectly OK 1:10 without.

I paid for his place (which became available when a student dropped out at the last minute).

Honestly, it's fine.

SilverApples · 26/09/2013 19:36

Cor, you really have an agenda here don't you, OP? Grin
Put your questions in an email to the governors, we have none of the unbiased facts required to answer your accusations and insinuations.
State school?

teacherandguideleader · 26/09/2013 19:36

I regularly go on school trips that the family of staff members go on. My DP is CRB checked through my school so he can come when we go at weekends. DP counts as an adult in the ratios. My friend regularly brings her children. The students don't pay from it but they benefit - if it was stopped teachers would be much less willing to give up their free time to take the students out.

ubik · 26/09/2013 19:36

I would be a bit taken aback if it was just him and his children - but his wife was there too...so what's the problem?

northernlurker · 26/09/2013 19:37

I think it's a certainty that he pays the costs of his family and in any case on the South Africa trip possibly his wife had some pastoral duties? No way have they gine free - he will know there are people like the OP snarking away. We had random adults on residential school trips too. My dad used to go with a friend's school on D of E expeditions. Mosty it's people giving up their time to have as good a time as you can when accompanied by teenagers.

Seriously OP - let this go.

overmydeadbody · 26/09/2013 19:37

you need to get a grip.

YABU

bearleftmonkeyright · 26/09/2013 19:38

If a teacher was prepared to staff a trip abroad, why shouldnt he take his family with him? I don't see the problem in either circumstance.

enjolraslove · 26/09/2013 19:38

I think if he gave up his time to do an international trip then I would just be grateful rather than upset that he chose not to be away from his family all that time. Presumably the other option is the tour didn't happen?
If his head is happy with the arrangements then be presumably trusts that the teacher can maintain professionalism with his family present and I see no reason why you think otherwise.

Caitycat · 26/09/2013 19:38

Sorry huge xpost and yes staff quite often bring family members on residential trips. As long as they are not adding unsupervised dcs I still don't see the problem (assuming they paid for the extras)