Teacher's family accompanying school trip

[Trifle]

DS1 (age 13) went on a school trip today to the zoo. One of the 6 teachers accompanying the 104 children on the trip took his wife and two young children.

Does anyone know what the legal ratio of teachers to children is for this age?

I think it is highly unprofessional to do this as the teacher spent the majority of time with his family and not supervising the children.

If the ratio is 1:17 then he should have been acting as a teacher first and foremost. If it is 1:20 then, fine, but really, a day off at the zoo just because a school trip happens to be going somewhere fun for his kids.

I'm pretty peeved at this as I had to pay for the trip and wonder if I am paying for his family too.

What would you do ?

Walking round the zoo with 13 year olds might not be the hardest day, but the planning and paperwork that have to be done before any trip take hours on top of the usual workload. Teachers don't have to take your kids out, they do it because they want to offer enrichment to their students despite the extra work that it creates. And there will always be parents that moan and nitpick '- fortunately, the children usually enjoy trips and sat thank you like decent human beings.

Plenty of parents accompany children on school trips... I don't think they have to be CRB checked (although I am because of my job)

I imagine it is very stressful to take a group of teenagers on a school trip.

I do think it is rather unusual for a teachers family to join them on a school trip. I do think it is unprofessional as well. Regardless of the field you work in, taking your family to work is generally accepted as not the done thing and something to happen only in exceptional circumstances.

The teachers wife joining them to make up ratios, I could see that as a valid reason, but taking the family i'd be a bit as well.

We all know the perks and pitfalls of the career path that we choose, and so shouldn't really be feeling so hard done by. I used to work as a midwife in the NHS but after years of never seeing my children due to the anti social shifts and not being able to get time off for school plays, sports day etc I changed paths and now work in an office, where I still wouldn't be able to bring my children to work or take them on business trips but at least have a bit more flexibility. Why would this be any different for someone who has chosen to be a teacher? I do agree that like most service workers teachers work damn hard for their salaries and put in more hours than Joe Public usually give them credit for, I still feel that it is unreasonable and unprofessional to take your whole family on a school trip, regardless of if they paid the full rate or went for free.

Phew, I'm so glad that the voices of reason are more numerous than the mean spirited, 'why should they do it 'cos I can't', gratuitous teacher bashing contributions - but I give the latter credit for utterly blinkered tenaciousness.

I see the miserable arse OP hasn't reappeared

Oh and one more thing! ITS A PUBLIC PLACE!!!!!
Everyone has a right to go regardless of relationship with any other person there. If they want to pay and go along they are allowed. They don't need anyone's permission.

I only read the original post, but for what it's worth: YABU. He got a chance to spend some extra time with his wife and lo's - that's nice isn't it? Your ds is a teen, not a baby. If he needs constant supervision, I'd be concentrating on what you're going to do to fix that, I wouldn't be wasting my time being resentful of other family's enjoying themselves...

From what I remember of school trips at that age the main risk is probably that they will find somewhere that will serve them and get alcohol poisoning. So really the teachers should take up residence in the bar!

I changed paths and now work in an office, where I still wouldn't be able to bring my children to work or take them on business trips but at least have a bit more flexibility.

But why wouldn't you be able to take them on business trips? Tons of people take their partners and family on business trips. I have accompanied my mother on business trips. Obviously she paid for my flights and meals. This is hardly unusual practice.

From what I remember of school trips at that age the main risk is probably that they will find somewhere that will serve them and get alcohol poisoning. So really the teachers should take up residence in the bar!

^^
This! - nothing worse than trying to deal into pubs and finding ur teacher there :o

At 13?

I remember our sixth form Shakespeare trip to Stratford was largely spent in the pubs and curry houses.

I have been on a number of health and safety courses through work recently so perhaps that colours my views. You only need to see footage from various recent disasters and hear first hand accounts to be reminded that none of the people involved expected anything to go wrong that day.

All first hand accounts said that in the first instance it is instinct and panic that kicks in. So actually, no I would expect that in a crisis the teacher with young family would be looking out for them first.

I dont expect school staff to be involved in direct rescue attempts or something their main role will be accounting for students as quickly as possible. Were the 'when the shit hits the fan' plans constructed on the assumption that Mr Smith would have his wife and children with him?

In Rotterdam zoo it was actually a gorilla which escaped. A nice, cuddly and as it turned out rather bitey gorilla.

As I said upstream industrial accidents tend to happen because too many people are happy to ignore or ridicule anyone who points out risks.

There is also a risk that when the shit hits the fan, Mr Smith will be injured or faint or be in the toilet or any other of a billion possibilities meaning that he can't carry out his role. Teachers have to risk assess trips, but you can't account for every conceivable eventuality. You have to rely on people also using common sense when the time comes. You cannot include in your risk assessment 'Mr Smith abandons his duty of care'.

What if Mr Smith decides not to help his family, but some toddler who is separated from his family and is perilously in the path of the gorilla? Risk assess that too?

worry you are absolutely right and health and safety courses and serious incident policies account for jack shit when the shit hits the fan.

as a parent I certainly had no idea that dds school trip would end so tragically for all on board.

in dds case the adults not dead or critical DID have to get the girls out/ give first aid.

that included the teachers dd ( thank god she was there) and the adult helpers on the trip who assisted the most badly injured first and NOT their own children.

I don't agree that panic is the first instinct, the first instinct is to save lives, panic and collapse comes later and that's why even 2 years post the accident counselling is required.

I loved my teacher's wives and children coming on a camping trip with school when I was about nine.

I agree that you cant account for every eventuality. However what you can account for is that Mr Smith has his family with him. I'm not saying he shouldnt just that as a parent I would prefer to know what the supervision arrangements are. If my DCs go on a school trip are they being supervised or only accompanied?

Because I'm not allowed to. I did ask with regard to one that was a course on the Friday and Saturday, it was close to Alton towers I mentioned to work that I might take the dc with me and my sister so she could look after the dc while I was working and was expressly told that it would not be appropriate.

and I wasn't suggesting that they stayed with me, but an extra room booked for sister and dc, plus paying my own room for the additional night.

I the end dsister came up with the dc on the Saturday and we stayed in a cheapy premier inn.

"But really, I am hearing how it's all terribly demanding and very few ppl are up to the job and these trips are jolly hard work and at the same time nobody needs to be supervising teenagers.
So, which is it?"

Both. Teaching is hard work and demanding.

Organising school trips the same.

Supervising them, is a massive responsibility, but practically not terribly difficult- unless something goes wrong.

So fine for teacher to spend time with family, and then help where nec. As wife would be 'in charge' of their children.

ubik Good thought - it was the Y10 Spanish trip (so 14) where someone was hospitalised for alcohol poisoning.

The Y9 trip was an outward bound trip and one of the girls got off with one of the instructors. So perhaps the teachers need to go round the zoo, spot the most shaggable zoo keeper and hang out with him all day!

My sixth form trip involved staying in university accommodation so my main memory is of me and the boyfriend I'd split up with 6 months earlier taking each others clothes off.

Not sure what teachers should have done about that.

Dontlet I'm sorry to hear that, that is your employer being ridiculous. I'd actually question if they can tell you you can't bring your DCs in that scenario. But it's your employer who should be more accommodating, not others who should be less so.

Fair enough Cory

Lots of interesting views on each side. I'm still on the fence and I doubt I'd mind tbh. But the "dealing with a crisis" points have been note worthy.

I don't think that accompanying family members on a business trip is neccessarily the same as a school trip though.
When I've accompanied DH overseas, it has often been at the expense/ request of the paying client (or not) Also, there are times when my presence is more or less likely to affect business and that's taken into account. I can lounge about on the beach while he is in a meeting. I can accompany him to a lunch, but I'd get in the way if I was present when he's actually "on the job"

Sorry the body