'veggies don't eat fish' friend fall out

[mrsfuzzy]

i'm a veggie i eat dairy produce, but no fish and meat nor have i done since i was a young child, i met a new friend three months ago and she asked about becoming a veggie which she was proud to tell everyone about but she still eats fish, i said that veggies didn't eat fish and that shell fish etc are 'banned' by the veggie society. i like her but she's got a bee in her bonnet and refuses to speak to me, we didn't argue about it about it at the time, i don't understand.

So by her logic - if she is a fish-eating vegetarian....

then the fact that I never used to eat fish as I hated it but I ate meat - that would have made me a meat-eating vegetarian.

Which is obviously a ridiculous sentence - but logically correct if she thinks that vegetarians eat fish.

Obviously in real life I don't ever call myself a meat-eating vegetarian except in the odd argument with people who call themselves vegetarian despite eating fish!

giveitago can you please read the thread. Many of us have explained why we don't actually care what people eat, but do care when they call themselves vegetarian when they aren't because it causes problems! It has all been explained, in detail.

So what if a Muslim child attends a Church of England school. (Yes, such a child is one of my son's best friends, and he is not removed from assembly or church services). Does he then forfeit the right to call himself a Muslim? Surely people can largely adhere to a set of beliefs or principles, but be allowed some occasional leeway, without being pulled up on whether they still qualify to be able to use a certain label?

Oh love - I'm from a religious veggie background. I don't give a shite what other people eat. I would assume that veggies don't eat fish. But I've met some people who eat fish only and call themselves vegetarian. I don't care. Perhaps animal care veggies do.

But who really cares.

My vegan friends see veggie in terms of vegan and think I'm not a veggie because I eat eggs.

Also some people don't thikg an egg eater is a veggie _ I was caught a few weeks ago with giving this kid a cake - it was returned because of egg.

There are sooo many ideas of veggie. I dont really care. I don't put definitions on it..

Hah, I think i remember sarcastically referring to the redefinition of "literally" in another thread on veg*nism last week.

Anais I am what people might call a militant vegan- I wouldn't eat anything to be polite! (And I'm on my twentieth year of diligent label checking.) But I would never dream of telling someone they didn't count as a non-eater of meat because they'd eaten it once! If you see him/her again, tell them a vegan says their social interactions make no sense from an ethical standpoint. I mean, if they want to get superior about it...

I'll certainly owe up to becoming incandescent getting very annoyed by both the whole pescatarian/vegetarian thing and the social background that means pescatarians feel that they have to say "vegetarian" in order to have their choices respected. I probably would if I was a confirmed meat-eater, because, let's face it, I am a born pedant but I never criticise people for not having cut out enough animal products.

It doesn't really make sense to me from a moral standpoint to get more upset with the people who have more similar eating choices to me, but not the same (whether for moral reasons or other reasons) than the people who have a totally different lifestyle.

It would be like getting angry because someone had a smaller direct debit to a charity than I did, rather than being pleased we both supported them.

giveitgo it's all about effective communication.

When words change definition, we end up with two meaning being used simultaneously, and these ones aren't easy to distinguish via context, because they're used in the same context.

The issue is that it's becoming like "bi-annual". If someone says bi-annual we no longer know whether they mean twice a year, or every other year. Which means that a nice short word has been replaced by a whole sentence out of necessity!

"My vegan friends see veggie in terms of vegan and think I'm not a veggie because I eat eggs"

And yet you are not calling them morons because you are polite

I like the Muslim child at a CoE school analogy. Better than my smoking one.

I have given a concrete example of why a pescetarian might not want to say that they eat some fish if being catered for. I still find it mortifying.

But people (not me) saying they are vegetarian when they are not do cause real problems, such as receiving an email suggesting that tuna on a jacket potato is an option or thinking that oyster sauce isn't made out of (possibly oyster) mushrooms so I can see both sides, really.

x-posts with Jessie. Love the direct debit comparison.

They are messing with bi-annual now?

Here's to seeing both sides

Bi-annual went years ago.

We are supposed to use semi-annual and biennial to ensure clarity, but I've seen "biennial" misused too.

Gah!

I am going to memorise your post for the next time I see that person btw and I congratulate you on your vegan credentials.

I've gone hungry during my entire childhood on many occasions in the past and in adulthood when I could find nothing suitable to eat to not wish to have the ability to eat anything, but that doesn't mean I don't respect people who stand by their principles, because I do

Eh, at this point I don't have much choice- I'm lactose intolerant, and the smell of egg makes me literally sick. And I mean the true definition of "literally" there! I'm willing to cook them occasionally for my family, but then I'm often obliged to eat dinner in a different room from them, due to the smell.

It isn't pleasant, and I say this as someone who eats them!

I am also very glad that this thread hasn't gone the way of the others I was ranting about last night thanks to people like you.

It's all simple from my point of view.

People who humiliate others for uncommon food preferences go in the stocks! I've had enough experience with those people who prowl around canteens, looking for a plate that doesn't have meat on it...

People who just don't care about clarity of language are first offered polite guidance. Repeat offences merit compulsory attendance at specially-organised classes- I'll get Michael Gove to do the teaching. They'll never do it again.

Businesses that mislabel food get fines, proportionate to size of company. The small takeaway run by a non-native speaker doesn't merit the same treatment as a huge one that can employ staff to manage the labelling.

Jessie, madder than a UKIP candidate

Bugger, pressed post too soon.

Anyway, once my measures are in place, the issue will become a thing of the past. People who just want to avoid various foodstuffs will have their diet respected, without them having to say "vegetarian" to get prats off their back and avoid further questions.

For example, I think "pescatarian, but I don't eat whole fish/only eat processed fish" or similar should be something people can say without mockery. And under my tyranny system, it will be.

I knew I was right to vote for your welfare reform policies on the workfare thread.

What about having 'orthodox' and 'reform' vegetarians, a la Judaism? About as many people would understand that distinction, as would know 'pescatarian', I reckon!

Flatiron I favour simply publicising the term "strict vegetarian". I'm also not minded to give in on terminology, because 20 years ago, no-one normal following a conventional diet understood what a vegan was. We had to travel seven miles to the Holland and Barratt to buy soya milk (I just checked google maps!). Now, it would be zero miles, because the supermarket in that small town now stocks it. Now, NHS hospital canteens even have tureens of pasta with the Vegan Society symbol on!

What's the logical distinction between a vegetarian who eats dairy, one who eats fish, and one who eats meat.

They are logically distinguished because "vegetarian" is a word that refers to diet, and they have different diets. Therefore it is relevant and logical to sub-categorise them by diet. Conversely it would not be logical to categorise them by the size of their duvet.

The first is a lacto-vegetarian, quite possibly a lacto-ovo vegetarian (which is the type currently implied by "vegetarian" in Britain) but the statement does not give us enough information to say one way or the other.

The second is presumably a pescetarian.

The third is presumably a very traditional Catholic pescatarian, who follows the Papal declaration from over a hundred years ago that capybara (the giant guinea pigs) count as fish.

*the type most commonly implied by "vegetarian" in Britain.

The reason it's implied, is because that is the dictionary definition. The OED defines 'vegetarian' as 'a person who does not eat meat or fish, and sometimes (my italics) other animal products, especially for moral, religious, or health reasons.' Why can't strict vegetarians call themselves vegans? Is there a difference between strict vegetarians and vegans? (Not trying to be contentious - genuinely want to know, speaking as a.....pragmatic vegetarian!)

I think a strict vegetarian is diet based and vegan is based on morals and lifestyle (no wool/leather/products tested on animals)

Sorry, meant to say vegan is diet+morals and lifestyle