isn't a bit of 'benign' neglect' a better parenting approach than helicopter parenting ?

[calopene]

.....By that I meaning giving kids a bit of responsability to do their own thing , helping them put up withand develop a bit of resilience to situations which are difficult/ uncomfortable. Also exposingthem to a bit of problem solving etc. Kids thrive when not cossetted/controlled and 'protected' to within an inch of their lives.

To me helicopter parenting is when the parents can't abide to stand back and let their children do something for themselves and constantly interfere.

This has an effect on the children's self esteem and they believe that they are incapable of doing something or sometimes anything on their own.

For example getting showered and dressed after swimming lessons, I had another baby when dd was 6 so she had to shower and change on her own and was capable of doing this aged 6, but every other parent got int he way as they were sorting out their children and dd1 used to complain to me about this.

It would not be neglectful to let your 6 year old to change and shower after swimming, but it is also not quite helicopter as some 6 year old do need help otherwise you maybe waiting two hours later. If though the parent was still interfering in the changing rooms when they are 8 it would be helicoptering.

it is letting children in a safe environment be able to do things for them self and letting go, standing back. Then dc will feel they are achieving.

I find it hard at time to stand back and let dd2 get on with packing her bag for racing, but I have to let her as then when she forgets something it is her problem to solve. DD forgot her shoes and had to ride a whole day without them. that night she came home and made a laminated list of everything she needed so it didn't happen again. Dd is left to pack the car with her stuff and her bike. I pack her food but that is my limit, not because I am cruel but I will not do her any favours if i run around doing stuff for her.

i would say it is about allowing them to fail in a controlled safe place, because if dc fail they will learn far more

I've seen too many Brownies/ teenagers being unable to complete basic skills, daft things like washing their own hair. The worst one was my friend at school who was 17 and didn't realise she was washing her hair with conditioner while on a 5 day residential trip. It was her mum's fault for packing the wrong shampoo hmm It tends to be some kind of combination of babyfying or lack of patience or time to teach the child.

How beautifully simple everything is if you just ignore the other most likely reason a late teen would have self care difficulties and just blame the parenting.

what is the other most likely reason a teen would blame her mum for packing the wrong shampoo?

My children have certainly not been helicoptered, if by that you mean mollycoddled and unduly fussed over. They've all been very socially independent, capable of thinking and doing things for themselves from a young age, were encouraged to toilet and feed themselves from as early as was possible, and I was never one of those mums that followed them into reception class every day and sorted out their coat and bag for them - far from it. And they all had hours and hours of messy/boisterous/make-believe play with loads of friends around all the time, with precious little involvement from me, except to clear up at the end, with a token gesture of help from them if I was lucky. And to provide pizza.

I just regret not being more disciplined with the school work. I'm trying to with my youngest now, but I think it's too little too late to really change his mindset.

I remember my friend who played the piano forcing all of her daughters to take piano lessons from the age of 4. She said 'I don't care if they hate it - they will go until they do their GCSEs, and they must practice every day. It's just what we do in our family. They don't have a choice. It's not up for discussion.They'll thank me for it when they can play really well.'

I tried to encourage all of mine to take up an instrument but all of them bailed after a term or so, when it just seemed too hard, too boring, or they'd rather watch TV than do music practice. I thought 'I have enough on my hands making the three of them do the homework they have to do, without making a rod for my own back with this as well. So I let them quit.

But I know they will all be in awe now of their friends who all play and instrument really well. Or speak a language. I could never make them stick at that either.

When you are a mother you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I wasn't actually commenting on that specificly, more It tends to be some kind of combination of babyfying or lack of patience or time to teach the child.

but as you raise it, a late teen teen unable to recognise this was conditioner not shampoo after using it five times, probably would blame anything they could out of pride.

It's like the "no make-up" make-up look isn't it?

It might look like benign neglect but actually a lot more effort needs to be put in to get kids to be self-sufficient and independent than helicopter parenting, if its done right....and not just as an excuse not to parent.

Benign neglect is one thing. Letting 6 year olds use the tube unsupervised by an adult exceeds bn parameters.

I think parenting style should fit the personality of the child not one size fits all. My 5 year old DS is what you would call a highly sensitive child. He worries a lot, he overthinks things a lot, he is ubercautious. He is also outgoing and boisterous but in new situations he needs his hand held (figuratively) a lot otherwise he panics and worries and doesn't want to go again. So I have probably been helicopter parenting a lot in order to avoid stressful situations and so he can have an enjoyable time and therefore want to do it again.
However we have turned a corner in the lasy 6 months as he has become way more confident and independent. By making him feel more comfortable about new situations he knows now that things generally go ok. I did this was I was the same type of child and my parents attitude of you are being an idiot just get on with it made me stressed and very anxious and it became a vicious circle of worry.

At home he is made to do things himself and can make sandwiches, wash and dress himself, feed the cats etc but that's a different issue.

The only parent I know who used to boast about her benign neglect basically was just neglectful.

Subliminal - it is a fine art to ensure DC acquire skills " because that is what we do in our family". When the parent has the natural authority to see it through it is a very powerful form of parenting, but it isn't in everyone's gift. Don't berate yourself too much!

Any 17 yr old should be doing their own packing!
It is a thread doomed to failure , helicopter parents refuse to realise that is what they are doing and benign neglect is taken as pure neglect or negligence or failing to control your child.
Benign neglect to me is giving them time to be bored and not feeling that you have to solve it.

It is much easier for DC to acquire skills when one or both of their parents is highly proficient in something. Children whose parents speak several languages or play several instruments grow up thinking that it is normal to be able to do so.

subliminal don't be hard on yourself, not everyone needs to do an activity or something they hate.
They may well not thank you for it in years to come.

My DCs tried loads of activities before they settled into the ones they love.
I do make them go to training, even when it's cold or raining or they can't be bothered but that's only because over the years they have made a commitment to a team. Not because I think it's something they should be doing.

I think most parents think they have got it wrong sometimes.

But I think you can't judge yourself based on another parent because all DCs are different.
I caused shock waves of horror at ds2 school when I let him cycle to school alone.
I wouldn't have let ds1 cycle at 10 because he would have found it too much, to remember to lock the bike, put the keys safely etc. They are very different children.
He did walk to school alone in year 6 because that was best for him IYSWIM.

Well my eldest (11yrs) walked half an hour to school today on her own. She will walk back after school on her own. I don't like it, I don't know how parents let go. I suspect I am a little, tiny bit of a helicopter parent.

Depends on your child. Dd1 needed to know that I was watching her back so to speak.
Dd2 worked much better with benign neglect.
Ds needs helicopter parenting at times because he gets carried away and can lash out.

Neither is necessarily better. Just parents that just do one feel smug they're not doing the other.

uri you make a very good point. Many (middle class) parents like to give the impression that they're uber laid back. They probably even believe it! A bit like women who insist keeping their house like a show home takes 'no time at all'.

I have seen some examples of what parents mean by benign neglect on MN, and that is not for me.

Having parents with completely different parenting styles can be damaging too. I grew up with a helicoptering mother and a benignly neglectful father. It made me hyper anxious at all times because I didn't know if I was coming or going - literally.

wordfactory - don't you think that parenting and even housekeeping do genuinelyu come more easily to "some middle-class parents" who were the beneficiaries themselves in childhood of high standards (and possibly come from many generations of high standards)?

I am in two minds on this one. I am more of a helicopter parent, in that I tend to follow the norms in this country, than my husband who is from a culture which is much more of the 'benign neglect' approach so think children walking to school (although schools are local) for 10 min from age 6, children left at home from age 7/8 and so on.

I've noticed two things though which may have been said already (haven't read whole thread as I though it would be full of people pointing out that the OP shouldn't have left her 11 year old to get lots of tiddlers to school the tube, which is obvious to me).

One is that benign neglect can easily become neglect- in my husband's country recently they ran a campaign telling parent not to get so blind drunk that you couldn't help your child in an emergency (we are not talking a white wine spritzer type drinking) as alcohol related deaths (parents being too drunk to stop child having accident) are really common there, or at least more than here. The 'hands off 'approach can mean no hands on deck for basic care like knowing where your children are.

Secondly, one reason that people from this culture have the confidence to benignly parent is that their culture is much more communal and basically they like children! If a child wanders from the mum, people happily play with the child and return it; if children go out as a big group aged 9 to play in the local park people are watching and minding out for them; people also play with children very actively and older siblings are taught to enjoy children's company (so for example, when we go for dinner, an older teen boy of the family might take them off for a while to the playground and they have a lot of fun, whereas you would probably have to pay an English teen boy to do this or there would be lots of eye rolling). Here, people are all about their own families, their own lives, and if a child is wandering about and the parents not immediately visible, the instinct is to judge, not to play with them for a while and then see where the parent is. I don't have the confidence to benignly parent in the UK because I don't think we have a culture of looking out for children communally; everyone is responsible for their own individual child's welfare at all times and so sending them away from you into a more individualistic parenting culture is far more risky.

A lot of middle class parents have staff to do some of the parenting for them

Bonsoir no I don't think that.

Both parenting and looking after a home take lots of time and effort to do to a high standard.

Sure, money makes both easier, but it doesn't negate the tasks involved entirely. Quite the contrary.

But some people like to give the impression that things happen with no effort involved. Which is a very British middle class trait. And a highly disingenuous one.

DD's BF is German and her mother is on average a lot more willing to let her daughter (who is 9) venture out alone and do things for herself than the Parisian parenting norm, which is our ambient culture. DD's BF goes shopping alone in the local supermarket, is left to cross the road to school on her own, and is very helpful round the house (she and DD didn't bat an eyelid about getting the vacuum cleaner when they had broken a light bulb and clearing all the mess up on their own).

This is all well and good, but it didn't stop DD's BF running across the road yesterday without looking when the pedestrian light was red. I nearly had a heart attack and DD looked on in horror. Thankfully there were no cars coming (it was a very dangerous corner).

I disagree. I think that deeply ingrained habits that are in your family for generations make parenting and housekeeping a lot easier - it is genuinely easier to keep your house tidy if you have always lived in a well-maintained tidy home with well-maintained tidy people. As is eating properly nourishing food an ingrained habit that helps people stay slim.

It's nothing to do with throwing money at it - it's a educational issue (though I grant that education is the product of money).

Why are people referring to a 6 year old making her own way on the tube? Have I missed something?