To ask if a school turning its canteen halal of kosher is them imposing a faith on people

[Souredstones]

I don't know how I feel about this but a Facebook post has really made me think if a school canteen is halal or kosher then isn't it imposing a faith on its pupils? Or is it? I don't know so I defer to the wise ladies of Mumsnet for a decision

Mrs De Vere - I am a vegetarian too. I want to limit animal suffering as much as possible. That's all.

No it it not black and white, gross oversimplification. You can buy meat of animals which have had a decent life. My chickens have a decent life, roam around and the cockerels get eaten. I know they have had a decent life, I have looked after them.

Well what mrsdv said really I honestly think us meateaters can not say wel this form of slaughter is far more tasteful to me than this form, or is this animal happy on its way to be killed , daisy cow can eat all the organic grass she likes she is still going to the slaughter house with all the other cows to get her brain fried and insides cut onto the floor,

MrsDV, with respect, I will argue to my last breath that it is extremely important to kill animals well. You may think it is all barbaric but that is ethics. The cow's experiences are what matters and that is welfare. The two are often confused but are very very different arenas.

I've eaten hala/kosherl food probably more times than I know, but it was my choice.

I'm an atheist and I hate the way religion squirms its way in to our schools. I didnt send my dd to a Muslim/ Jewish/Catholic school so I wouldn't expect her food to have been prayed over.

Just the same as I didn't like it when some one forced her to say grace one day on a school trip before they ate.

Would Muslim/Jewish person eat a sandwich that has had grace said over it?

One faith does NOT have the monopoly on what happens in our non religious schools. If people want their food to be blessed,say grace, indulge in religious tosh then send them to specified religious school.

I fully understand why R.E is taught and the understanding of different beliefs. BUT that where it stops.

Our kids go to school to open and grow there minds not to have some wizard chanting over meat/praying to a old bloke with a white beard that lives in the clouds/swinging incense around.

Religion causes so much violence and segregation there is no place for it in our schools. Hate Hate Hate it

funny how people suddenly come over all caring in the last few seconds of an animals life. And it literally is the last few seconds when a throat is slit as once blood stops going to the brain the animal is unconscious within a second. Sure the heart is beating and pumping out the blood just like the stunned animal with its throat also cut and blood pouring out. But both no longer have blood flow to the brain.
How about caring about how the animal is raised, how it is transported etc. But most people want cheap meat as much as possible and wont buy free range organic. So really, most people dont actually give a shit about the animals life. Until that last few seconds. When suddenly they get all crusadery.

I'm astonished that posters (whose vegetarianism is presumably borne out of concern for the welfare of animals) are saying that it doesn't matter how much suffering an animal has to endure. The animal doesn't know it's going to die. It does know if it's suffering. How can the destination render the level of welfare on the journey irrelevant?

It's all a load of bollocks anyway because the original post about the thing on facebook is some shite spread by the EDL anyway and isn't happening in schools generally.

Organic meat can often be associated with poorer welfare. Organic essentially means they only get treatment once they're ill, so animals are sometimes denied preventative care.

It saddens me that people have so little of the nitty gritty of farming.

*little understanding

I find some comments really mad. Are people really that concerned about how their meat is killed when we look at how they actually live? Chicken raised in factories, never seeing sunlight? Cattle fed with manure and dead animals, which is what led to mad cow disease? With no space to move, so that they never develop normal muscles?
For what it's worth, I have actually researched halal slaughtering and documented the Eid sacrifices in a Muslim country. There's is no doubt in my mind that traditional halal slaughtering (and that's not what is happening here in the UK) is infinitely more humane. People go to farms and choose healthy, free range animals. There are many rules for the slaughtering, such as the animals should be kept apart from each other when killed and should never see the knife at any point. This is to prevent them getting distressed. They should be killed by cutting the jugular veins at once so that the animal dies almost instantly with minimum pain. They certainly don't "bleed to death", although the meat is drained from blood because it carries toxins and germs. Stunning can create brain damage and some animals actually die during the process, so I doubt it's painless. Poultry is hanged by the legs to be stunned. In some cases they are held in shackles and thrown in electrical waterbaths. I'm totally with Boozybear, it's plain torture.
Two more things: kosher meat is considered halal by Muslims so there certainly wouldn't be an "uproar" if kosher meat was served in schools. Secondly, the majority of halal meat in the UK is actually stunned (except HMC certified meat), simply because it's cheaper to stun the animals than giving them individual attention and killing them decently.

'Religion causes so much violence and segregation there is no place for it in our schools.'

Oh I agree with that. But Christianity is already in all our schools. I wish there was no religion in schools. The worship in assemblies is a far bigger issue than food.

By the way this has already been discussed on MN a while ago...

people started arguing over slaughter methods which then turned in to a race war which then turned in to your average bog standard Muslim hating......

wonder how this is going to turn out

Poachedeggs, I completely agree with you

twisty There isn't morning worship in every school and pupils can leave and not participate.

It would be a different matter If the food had blessed as the kids choice would have been taken away.

It is an ignorant and narrow minded view that being a meat eater somehow negates any concerns one might have about the welfare of the animals eaten.

Poachedeggs - thanks for your posts.

if other meat is offered then no, but if your only choice of meat is halal meat then it is being imposed on you as you do not have a choice.

Of course you will not become catholic if you eat fish every friday, but if fish was the only choice on the menu due to religious reasons it would be a meal imposed on you regardless of whether you wanted it or not if there was no other choice.

This is a valid point crescent but when a letter comes from the school to say the meat will be kosher there will be no way of verifying that stunning has taken place. Unless I know an animal has been stunned I am not satisfied.

mrsdeve I normally agree with most your posts but 'shared' by people who scarf their way through value burgers and £2.50 chickens

Maybe that all people can afford.