To not get why people hate Dubai so much?

[Cutitup]

What is there to hate?

I think it's a great place to have a holiday. Great restaurants, great service, fab shopping and spa treatments.

I do understand the problems of domestic and construction staff being exploited but this is not a problem unique to Dubai. I just don't get the vitriol, the 'it has no culture' etc.. I say get out of the bitter farm and play with the hay!

Tell you what MangoTiramisu - why don't you comment on the videos I posted and then I'll divulge details about my personal life?

I have already clearly stated that I have not been to Dubai (In a previous job I had the opportunity to do some work there but declined to do so.)

Could people please stop dismissing the views of all those critical of the UAE's treatment of migrant workers and rape victims, among others, as 'armchair warriors'? I lived in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, I worked for The National newspaper, and I did quite a lot of poking around for the purposes of work (before realising no one would publish critical pieces).

The 'armchair warrior' critic is a straw man. It is perfectly possible to have extensive experience of the UAE's corrupt legal system, discriminatory labour laws, censored press, repressive attitudes to internal dissent etc and criticise the place. No, it is far from the only country with such issues, but it was the specific place about which the thread was started.

TeaJunky, I haven't read the latter part of the thread, so I don't know what you are specifically referring to, but I can honestly say that while the UAE is technically an Islamic country governed by Sharia law, Islam seemed to me in general to be invoked in the most token, a la carte way, in Dubai at least. (It is almost certainly different in the other, more traditional and rural emirates.) The interesting thing about living there was seeing how a dilute version of Sharia co existed with widespread official turning of a blind eye to massive prostitution, for instance...

What did you think of the interception of the documentary makers' FedEx package containing a copy of their films that they found to have been erased on arrival in Germany?

What did you think of the plight of the women living hand to mouth without passports, hiding from the police because they had left their abusive employers?

Or the plight of the woman paralysed after falling down stairs in her employees home having her wages frozen and being sent back home with nothing? Apparently she only get medical treatment because she was helped by a charity (i.e. not her sponsors).

Or the women from the Philippines taking refuge in the Embassy who didn't get fed by their employers and had to live off leftovers from the family's plates?

Is anyone denying abuse exists and that conditions and laws need to be better? I've never been to dubai but have seen how the maid system works in Singapore and the construction workers from a distance. I've heard it can be worse in Dubai.

I'm not going to watch the videos, don't know who the reporter is or if he is portraying a balanced account.

FFS.

Ben Anderson works for the BBC, he covered the slave situation in Dubai for Panorama. Rather than refuse to watch a video why not google the reporter and find out who they are?

Or alternatively just keep your head in the sand.

Anyone else actually willing to watch and comment? Over 80% of Dubai's population is made up of migrant workers and some of you claim to 'love Dubai' - surely you are interested in the lives of these people?

It is hilarious that this is still going on. With the amount outraged middle aged middle class hot air wasted on SUCH a teeny little place, you have probably contributed to global warming all on your own.
Just a little bit sad.

I'm sorry that you find human rights issues tedious, Theodora.

Those of you that find analysis of human exploitation banal had better keep your heads in the sand because these practises are going to come under greater scrutiny in years to come due to the Qatar world cup. I only hope it makes a difference.

Maybe the UN will get it together and offer abused migrant workers a couple of Cokes.

I don't need to watch any videos, I have a fair idea of what goes on as I've lived amongst it and discussed it many, many times and know quite a few maids.
Heads in sand? How smug and superior and wringing of hands. So what exactly do you do to help these people?

again....priceless, what a hoot.

I simply don't want to go on holiday to Dubai. Far beyond any ambivalence about spending my money in businesses which are environmentally unsustainable and fuel demand for human trafficking, I simply wouldn't be able to relax and enjoy my holiday in that kind of environment. No one has been able to tell me why my feelings would be wrong.

Lots of people on this thread are evidently very happy to enjoy it and "play with the hay" as the OP suggests. If you're comfortable with that choice, then fine, but why become so hyperdefensive about the human cost of Dubai's tourist economy? Or bend over backwards to minimize its effects, or insist that it's ok, because it's 'getting better'.

If the UAE really wanted things to get better for migrant workers then it could easily act on the recommendations of the UN and the ILO, amongst other bodies.

If you live or holiday in the area and you believe that things are improving and would like to support change, you could always lend support to organisations who are trying to raise awareness of these issues and work towards change. www.migrant-rights.org/

Sometimes things do happen slowly, but raising awareness and publicising concerns often precipitate change. I don't see how any good can come of trying to shut conversation down.

You're just making things up now.

What am I making up, Bling?

MangoTiramisu. Thank you for taking the time to watch the videos I posted and commenting.

Your argument just comes down to 'Dubai is as bad as other places with horrific human rights records'.

The first documentary was made by BBC award winning journalist Ben Anderson for Panorama. The second was produced by Stefan Pannen award winning managing director of Berlin Producers and member of the World Congress of Science and Factual Producers

Hardly 'shoddy sources' or 'some bloke' 'uploading some of his own journalist videos'. I have been to the Middle East although I haven't lived there. The Middle East is big and made up of many countries and cultures, so I'm not sure whether I have been to any part of this massive region or not, is terribly relevant to a specific discussion on the treatment of workers in Dubai. If I had lived or holidayed extensively in Israel, for example, would that make me much more qualified to comment on Dubai in your eyes? Funny way of thinking.

(The woman in the second video was from Ethiopia BTW.)

And OMFG at this.

I went looking for information on housemaids in Dubai and stumbled on this particular discussion.

Is it true that sponsors are expected by the UAE regime to hold onto the passports of those they sponsor? Are there British expats doing this? I'm guessing so from the forum discussion - it seems to be ok to discuss taking your 'maid's' passport.

Those of you who have experience of Dubai either because you lived/live there or recruited women from Asia to work there, please can you comment...

Expat Woman is for expat women - it is contributed to by women of many nationalities, not necessarily in the EU. It is therefore not a true reflection of what British women feel.

From my experience of 12 years in the Middle East across 5 territories, I can attest that European expats treat their maids very well. I had Sri Lankan women knocking on my door every day asking me if they could work for me. I chose not to have a housemaid but I did employ a cleaner. I know of many expat, British women who had housemaids and I would say that they considered their maids as part of their extended families and they treated them accordingly.

Many of the maids did not want to take their annual leave, choosing instead to save their money OR sometimes, they preferred their lives in Dubai and didn't want to go home (as they were expected to take many gifts which was quite onerous on their savings). Many maids there have family members who are also in Dubai and I would say that they have nice lives and live in comfortable surroundings. Of course, they are lucky to get a European 'sponsor'.

The truth of the matter is that most Sri Lankan (Indian, other nationalities) prefer to work for Westerners because they are treated so well. I have heard countless horrendous stories from maids at the play park about Indian and 'local' sponsors who have little regard for their welfare. Their stories would make you weep.

Westerners are good for Dubai because they are a force for change.

Slowly slowly, it will happen.

This is fucking scary!

"I am not denying that there are people who do not treat their maids well. Every human being needs time off. However, I don't know if I would allow my maid to go wherever she wants on her day off. I am not sure if you follow the news but many s*xual assault cases happen to women from certain nationalities and as the person fully responsible for my maid I would not like her to be out at night, or at places I don't know. And unfortunately lot of maids have also ruined it for others by getting tempted into things against the law, such as getting pregnant, drinking while they're not allowed to without license. And I will be held accountable by the law if she does anything of if anything happens to her. I don't know the reasons your friends treat their maids they way they do and frankly people who mistreat others would not be someone I'd want to be friends with. And again, you don't know what happens in every house and just because your friends treat their maids in a way you disapprove of, doesn't mean everyone is like them. As a sponsor here of a domestic helper you are 100% responsible and you are expected to make sure your maid stays out of trouble and danger."

Can I just add - it is IMPOSSIBLE to be an ethical tourist if you consider Dubai to be bad. Where could you possibly go? There is slavery in our very country! Human trafficking on our shores! It happens here too.

And as for being so superficial about loving the service in Dubai, well, what's wrong with that? It means the employees are doing a great job. I'd rather shop at Dubai Mall with it's umpteen women's sports shops with the best and latest range of sports clothes than ever have to schlepp into the embarrassment that is Sports Direct - which seems to be the best that the UK has to offer in terms of sports clothes for women. Well, apart from Sweaty Betty and www.stateofmindactive.com

Dubai has an awful lot of offer. That's why it's so successful.

Portofino, you are correct in that a sponsor of a maid is responsible for her. That means if she is caught acting unlawfully (drinking alcohol or having sex outside of marriage) then the sponsor will get a big fine.

How is that scary?

Pls don't forget that a sponsor pays quite a lot of money to 'sponsor' a maid - over £2,000. You have to vouch for them and keep them safe.

The maid is clearly not considered a person because if she were, then she would be considered responsible for her own actions and nobody else would be punished for her crimes.

Basically, the maid is considered a pet. Say, a dog that will get its owner in trouble if it doesn't behave in public.

So you "buy" the right to have a worker for £2000 (aka slavery) and then you are responsible for their actions as if they are dogs or small children.

Holy Fuck!

Have been there but this, along with the homophobia and misogyny will mean I will not go back.

Seriously?

You don't 'buy the rights', you pay for their sponsorship (gov't fees to include admin and free medical) and you pay for their flights, accommodation and meals.

Don't exaggerate.