To not get why people hate Dubai so much?

[Cutitup]

What is there to hate?

I think it's a great place to have a holiday. Great restaurants, great service, fab shopping and spa treatments.

I do understand the problems of domestic and construction staff being exploited but this is not a problem unique to Dubai. I just don't get the vitriol, the 'it has no culture' etc.. I say get out of the bitter farm and play with the hay!

Are you in Monaco, CoteDAzur?

I like Monaco, I love New York... but just really can't deal with a place like Dubai...

If it makes you feel better to think that I have the opinions I do because I think some people are beneath me amber then you carry on

In this situation I actually have the opinions I have because I can't abide the hypocrisy of those who believe they can criticise the choices of others whilst doing fuck all to demonstrate any better behaviour themselves.

Yes I do live in Qatar as I said.

By the way not avoiding answering any questions but the 6th form common room is closed, it's a Saturday.

What on earth does that mean? Theo, we've alway got on, on other threads. What on earth is going on here?

So would you be happy for your daughter to work as a maid in Dubai, then Bear? A response that it is better for those that do it than where they came from is not an answer to that question. If my dd wanted to travel the world and do basic jobs to fund her travel, would you recommend it?

I am an expat to be clear, one who has moved to improve life for my family. I am not jealous of anyone, unless they have a yacht. I quite fancy a yacht.

No portofino I would recommend she was a prostitute in Bangkok- stop making incomparible comparisons.

Regardless of what we want to happen, different people have differing standards of living. In Dubai things are evolving, and the quality of life domestic workers have is an improvement on the life they would have at home. Just because it isn't the life we are fortunate enough to enjoy, doesn't make it insufferable.

Why is it incomparable? I have worked as a chambermaid in my time. Honest pay for honest work and all that. Where do prostitutes come into it?

If it not bad for workers in Dubai, then why would you say it's better for my dd to be a prostitute?

portofino get your daughter to do an honest days work in a sweat shop in Bangladesh if it makes you feel better about yourself.

I don't see any point in me continuing this debate any further.

It would seem the armchair warriors are far happier sitting back in the comfort of their own chintz and preaching about things that are actually rapidly changing, without even acknowledging those changes, than they actually are about doing anything that might remotely inconvenience their day to day lives.

Oh, and for the record I have yet to see a female chambermaid in Dubai but I'm sure that will only add fuel to your sanctimonious fire.

I'd be happy to think that things are changing. Just as plenty of things have changed in the UK over the last 100 years. But they took time and effort to change. It didn't happen automatically, or by magic. And it didn't happen by people shrugging their shoulders and saying 'oh well, just because it isn't the life we are fortunate to enjoy doesn't make it insufferable'.

Also don't see why it is 'incomparable' to imagine a relative working in the service industry abroad.

But bear, you have not spent anytime telling us about the changes, how things are improving, why we should not have such a bad opinion etc. you have just laid in to posters who say Dubai is bad. If it is so great then tell us why. It shouldn't need to get personal. And we are not talking about fucking Bangladesh!

Just to summarise:

I am an expat who isn't living in council owned housing, I have one child child, by one father. I have a perfectly nice life and and only feel jealous of people who have a nice yacht.

I do not like Dubai and what is stands for because it promises luxury at the expense of its workers who are treated extremely poorly.

The workers may be indeed be grateful for the opportunity, but Dubai is a rich country and could afford easily to protect their rights/pay better but it chooses not to.

Bangladesh is a poor country and western govts need to ensure ethical purchasing strategies are in place. Bangladesh does not promote itself as a luxury holiday destination.

Thank you portofino, you have just perfectly illustrated my argument on this thread.

Do you realise how glib and smug it sounds to say I have a perfectly nice life and and only feel jealous of people who have a nice yacht, even in jest, given your argument on this thread?

I have not tried to argue that Dubai is perfect, although it is a country that is younger than many of us and is rapidly developing and it is a place where it doesn't take 100's of years to change things.

My point throughout had been that it is hugely hypocritical for people to single it out for such a slating when they do nothing to demonstrate any kind of commitment to those views in their everyday life.

I love to see what you would chose to do if someone offered you your yatch on the condition it was moored in Dubai.

Ok bear, seeing as you are still posting and seem to have knowledge of Dubai. Could you answer my question about racism? How are mixed race marriages received, and is my friends experience unusual?

ltevedallas I have not answered you question as I am white and my husband is white so I have no experience on the acceptance of mixed race marriages, and unlike others, i do not find it helpful to answer questions when i do not have the experience/ knowledge to do so.

What I do know is that even if mixed race marriages are not well accepted in Dubai, then that is not exclusive to there and is not a reason to single it out for criticism above all other places.

I know a mixed race couple where the Balinese wife was so badly treated when they moved to Belfast that they had to leave.

^^ argh- typo- I do realise that Dubai is not a country!

Fair enough bear, just thought living over there you would have seen how other races were treated.

Er, where did you get the idea I live in Dubai from? I have frequently holidayed there but I don't live there. Please don't make me sound naive and blinkered about something which I have had minimum exposure to, therefore am unable to comment on.

Crikey, you are touchy, and all I've been is polite

I'm afraid I assumed you lived there because you posted knowledgeably (and rather defensively) about it. I thought you had more insight than just a few holidays, that's all.

It's interesting that many of you point out the migrant workers have gone there to better the lives of their families.

Many of these workers are drawn to the country with a promise of a 9-5 job and decent wage - pay thousands of dollars for a visa, get themselves in debt only to get there and live in squalid conditions for less pay than promised, shuttled to work overnight so westerners don't see them, work 14 hour shifts 7 days a week to pay off their debt which can take 2 years before they can even start sending their pittance wages to their families. They often don't choose to stay there, their passports are seized.

They are probably too scared to stand up for themselves, I personally know an English businessman sent there to work for 3 days and was imprisioned for a year in Dubai for telling airport security to 'fuck off' under his breath as his female colleague was being hassled in the airport.

I understand that similar conditions may be seen in other countries, however, Dubai is well known for glitz and glamour, Spas and lavish lifestyles. It is marketed that way to westerners deliberately ignoring the way this man made monstrosity was built on the blood and sweat of migrant workers.

We all know many in India, Mexico, China and many other countries live in squalid working conditions, it's horrendous, but it is not deliberately hidden to ignorant westerners like in Dubai.

I didn't mean to be touchy, sorry , but you seemed to imply I was too blinkered to notice things like poor treatment of mixed race marriages when I have never said I lived in Dubai and made it quite clear that I was unable to comment on something I have no experience of.

I have spoken to some of the people who work in the hotels in Dubai about their lives and their families at home and that is where my knowledge comes from. That might not be as insightful as it could be but it is still more informed than those comments made by people who have only read and heard about the place.

Bear, I made the comment about having a perfectly nice life as one of the "arguments" repeatedly put forward is that people are disapproving of Dubai because they are jealous. I was pointing out that I am not jealous of anyone. Posters have put forward a list of valid reasons why they don't like Dubai, and the counter arguments are:

Other places are worse
You are jealous
If you buy Primark pants you are a hypocrite
Better to live in Dubai than live off the state in the UK
Reading stuff about it means you are ignorant - how can you possibly know what it is like and form an opinion just reading news reports etc.

And then all the derailing and personal comments. No-one seems to want to counter the issues:

Racism
Sexism
Human rights abuse of the immigrant work force
Sexual and domestic abuse of female workers
"crimes" for which westerners can be imprisoned - being in debt, kissing, sex outside marriage, being raped, having a car accident with an Emirati etc etc
Sex trafficking
Money laundering

And you have to remember that staff in hotels are likely to put a positive spin on talk about their situation, because they are hardly in a position to do otherwise - they would risk their job by being less than complimentary about the set up.