to think this class system only exists on MN?

[GildedWingsOfGrace]

All the time I hear "middle class" bashing on here.

Or "working class" guilt. Only on MN.

I wouldn't have a clue what class I am or what class my friends are, or the people I work with are.

It doesn't even occur to me, and I never hear it mentioned in day to day life

Alis

I never thought you were being nasty to underclasses.
Historians are usually pretty fair and don't discriminate. (is that indiscriminate)?
It is such an interesting subject, I am presently reading Workhouses and spotting several of my ancestors. . No guessing my class then.

Mick Jagger went to Dartford Grammar School. You'll be waiting for hell to freeze over if you are looking to hear a posh person in Dartford. Even at the grammar school.

and then LSE I believe, yes.

But certainly not a boy from the mean east end streets as his put on accent supposed. He was hardly a barrow boy, and this in a time when accent was more telling.

The very briefest of googles confirms it, Mick Jagger, most mc member of the Rolling Stones, one of first people to actively downgrade his accent, as it were.

re Lilly Allen & Mick Jagger, if you are trying to sell yourself to a certain 'class' then is obviously pays to act as if you are one of them, that way they will identify with you, see you as something to aspire to and buy your records

same goes for fabulously wealthy footballers, if they suddenly started trying to emulate the habits of the ruling classes their audience would feel alienated and no longer willing to pay for the tickets and merchandise etc which funds the astronomical salries

What? So wc people can identify with the footballer's Bentleys and mansions can they? Not all of them are massively extravagant.
And only wc people with accents buy popular music?

This. This is exactly why I hate classes and labels and assumptions. It is lazy and dangerous.

Exactly why Mrs beckham isn't posh. If only her DH would keep his gob shut he might be attractive. Not my cup of tea and she looks as common as he sounds. Jagger had stle in an indy, earthy, clever way. They just don't. IMO any way.

But married, it doesn't matter what class they are, the Beckhams are both marmite anyway, as people.
Silly voice or no, I would with David and I would love even half of Victoria's ambition and work ethic.

I just don't see people in terms of class. I see people I would want as friends, people I admire, people I wouldn't. ....even if they were on fire.

Who in this day and age wants to be posh/uc?

And only wc people with accents buy popular music
erm no, it's just a case of...oh ffs I give up

That's a brilliant analogy. Yes, they are like thick, vile, brown goo - nothing appealing about either of them . Can't stand marmite!

No Lazy, that is what you were saying, no?
Otherwise why downgrade your accent to appeal to a certain "class"?
Unless you hadn't explained yourself very well?

cba

And if you are pretending to be wc, what are people aspiring to be?
A wc popstar/footballer. But still wc. What is the point? If class is so important?
Gawd, you can have gazillions of £££ s like the Beckhams and people still sneer.
I just don't think people care about class like they used to.

It was fashionable to be working class in the 60's. It was the first time in the uk working class people had a voice in the media, tv, films and of course music it was a revolutionary time. Not sure if it started with The Beatles but I guess they were part of it 3 working class young men (and one who was not really) over taking the music industry

If you hear very early interviews with Mick Jagger his accent was quite different

Exactly,being wc was cool, era of the Angry young men, A Taste of Honey etc etc
They were pretending to be from the mean streets to fit in.

The era of the angry young men thing is interesting... there is an equivalent thing going on right now, with middle class teenagers acting like they are gangsters and trying to appropriate some of the language, mannerisms and dress code that go with this.

I think it's largely down to the music culture - but can't speak for middle class kids because I don't know many. I do know that the issues of drug dealers on the corner, violence, anger about lack of opportunities etc. are very real to some of the young people who live near me, and that some of them find it odd to say the least that more privileged young people think it is cool to identify with the lyrics in the songs. Maybe to some middle class young people, the lyrics are part of some fantasy world, like living with superheroes or zombies or something, but to some young people round here they are simply gritty reality, and they identify with them because the songwriters have somehow magically articulated their own experience and actually got it published and played on the radio.

Of course, I may not be making sense after too much vino...

How can you ^l

Ahem.

Married How exactly does Victoria Beckham "look common"?

They're both people who have done very well for themselves, spectacularly so actually. Both seem nice enough. She looks like a stylishly dressed woman. Have always felt sorry for VB, she's suffered years if vitriol for no reason I can work out. Strong work ethic, successful, lovely kids. Yeah, what an awful woman she is

Hate to say it, but I think Victoria Beckham looks common too. She just has a harsh face.

So common people have harsh faces? Who is common? Poor people? People you deem to be chavs or nouveau riche?

There are no hard faced posh people?

Why not just say "she looks like she has weak genes" and be done with it? Christ.

she has a bit of a weak chin
(not that I'm exactly blessed in the chin dept )