to think this class system only exists on MN?

[GildedWingsOfGrace]

All the time I hear "middle class" bashing on here.

Or "working class" guilt. Only on MN.

I wouldn't have a clue what class I am or what class my friends are, or the people I work with are.

It doesn't even occur to me, and I never hear it mentioned in day to day life

Clearly they do, burberryqueen- and not just on MN.

I can't believe I have just outed what a vb fan I am

Ditto.

Calling her "common" is just silly.

Agree that the use of the word common is horrible. However, it shows that some people are still conscious of class. I said it down thread without even realising that it would be so offensive. Apologies.

Sorry for banging on about vb but would the posters who call vb wc would you call Kate wc too.

I mean Carole Middleton started out as an air hostess so would you say Kate wasn't mc she just grew up with money

No, because Kate went to university.

Ah ok so your level of education is what defines your class

Scarlett, I'm not crazed about VB to the point where I'm offended. . But that word does make me wince.

I think education plays a major part in it- there is another thread at the moment on the definitions within middle class. Someone who was middle middle class is highly unlikely to have skipped university to audition and be part of a girl band for example, so a major clue that VB didn't grow up in a truly middle class household.

Being university educated doesn't make you middle class.

Though it may mean your children will be. You are the class you're born into no matter how rich or wealthy you become.

That's why people like Alan Sugar are mocked by some. He may be a Lord now but to some he's still just a bloke from the East End. Not my attitude by it's what some people think.

So do you then think Kate Middleton is working class as she grew up in a home without university educated parents? Did she grow up any differently to how Wayne Rooneys children will grow up?

The Rooney's aren't mc either. They're just very rich.

Class isn't just education. Going to university doesn't make you mc immediately. Nor does not going.As far as I know Kate Middleton's parents founded and set up a very successful business. Both were flight attendants at some point. Father was mc anyway, mother was not. She would always have had a comfortable background.

Apologies if I offended with the use of a word. But as a comparison between the Middleton's and the beckham's has been drawn let's remember the wedding.

VB had her hair scraped up in a ponytail or bun on the side and David wore his medals on the wrong side - so all that money, all that style and they still got it wrong. The Middleton's OTH were understated style personified and don't seem to go out of their way to encourage the "ooh look at us" elements of privilege in the way that the Becks seem to court it. Doesn't mean the Becks might not be good family people and yes I agree with the poster who said they don't swear, work hard and live decent lives and I'm sorry if I took that away from them because itks very important. Their wealth though just seems a bit too conspicuous.

Not forgetting of course the two Windsor girls who arrived straight from the panto - not sure where that fits in but I felt a bit sorry for them.

I think the Beckhams have changed quite a bit since their admittedly tacky wedding. It was in the 1990's!

at "arrived straight from panto" horribly accurate description!

So as taste bears an implication on class we need another class basically the nouveau riche

I seem to think VB had short hair when she got married.

The only "class" obsessed with class are the mc who occupy the most precarious position of being neither wc or uc. The fear stems from the fact that the self designated mc are beset with the fear that they may never match up to being upper class and may in fact simply be wc. This is where the cultural signifier takes on such importance to the mc.

They are self-conscious of their precarious position caught between where they aspire to be and where they fear they may end up.

The economic reality is that if you work for wages you are working class. Should your wages be denied to you because your skills are no longer needed or you are simply two a penny then your greatest fear will be realised. Your cultural signifiers will not pay the heating bill or afford you the luxury of keeping up pretences.

nouveau riche is a commonly recognized group Wannabe

Take a look at this article for a recent analysis of the UK social structure

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22007058

if you work for wages you are working class

no thats not economic reality, it's just a particular way of defining what is meant by the term 'working class'

it's a rather outdated definition related to marxist theory and not what most people mean when they say working class.

This is why cultural signifiers act as a means of denying the reality. This benefits only one class of people and it isn't the working class. Its only outdated because those that have the social power over mainstream cultural and political messages would have you believe this.

Its called cultural hegemony. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony very basic explanation.

Mini, obviously those at the top have the most power..is anyone denying that?

But we dont live in a feudal system where it's just landowners and surfs, people in the middle social strata have better lives than those at the bottom.

But yeah, I guess we are all just cogs in the capitalist machine :(

My post wasn't meant to refer to the Beckham's wedding; it referred to them at the royal wedding betwwen Kate and William.

Thank God we live in a democracy mini and not a marxist state.

marriedinwhiteisback, in which case why not critique VB and Tara Palmer-Tomkinson. Put a picture of the two together and then tell me which one has naff taste.

marriedinwhiteisback, democracy is a political aspiration under capitalism. Marxist theory would point out that capitalism is not compatible with democracy. You simply show that you know nothing about Marxist theory but hold a philosophical view that is probably not your own but the manifestation of cultural hegemony. benefits no one incl you.