to be surprised by how many people are anti-immigration?

[Mimstar]

I was called naive today. Apparently 'if you aren't concerned by immigration, you've got your head in wonderland'.

And I thought - actually, I know hardly anybody else who isn't anti-immigration.

I'm trying to understand this attitude, it seems so common nowadays. Maybe I do have my head in wonderland.

I'm so tired of hearing 'job stealers!' type comments.

Are you an immigrant LRD?

No, why?

Wow the ignorance is just astounding...

So how would some of you feel if I told you that my 2 British born daughters (not biologically mine but I am their only mother) did not receive CB for the first 4 years of their lives because their Dad was a non EU immigrant.

Their British mother is prevented from seeing them by the courts and my husband was awarded full PR of them.

He is an African immigrant who waited years for a decision on his visa, because these things can take years and years. All the time he was waiting for a decision he had no re-course to public funds. This meant despite having full custody of two British born DDs he could not claim a single benefit, not a penny.

Luckily for him when the courts awarded him full PR and residency of the girls they ordered Social Services to pay the rent on a property for him and pay him a £100 a week wage for the girls until his immigration was sorted out.

This is about half the price it would have cost for the to put the girls into care so was a benefit to the country. However, DH had to pay everything out of the £100 a week including council tax, gas, electric etc etc

He finally received his Visa but the home office decided that ILR was not justified on this occasion and awarded a 3 year temporary visa (£800 cost) outside of normal immigration laws. When it expired he had to apply for a further 3 years (at a cost of another £800) then and only then is he allowed to apply for ILR and there is no guarantee he will get it. We are currently waiting for their decision on the second 3 years we have applied for...They have had our application since the end of January when his Visa expired, their is no time limit for how long they can take to decide, so we are in limbo just waiting to see if he will be asked to leave the country or not.

Oh and being married means nothing any more and certainly does not entitle someone to just come and live here.

The system is a mess, human beings are being treated like dirt and then classed as a drain on society just because they weren't lucky enough to be born in a certain country.

Sorry for the ranty epic post but I just get so angry when I hear people talking shit about things they clearly have no idea about. Educate yourself people, put down whatever rag you are reading and read some legislation, research some immigration law, listen to people who have been through it!

Cairn, good luck rocking up at the council and asking for a council house. They will certainly help you with housing if you need it but it might well be a private let....with help from housing benefit if needed.
They will laugh you out of the building if you say what you have on here though,
If you can claim all benefits I am assuming you are British or from a country where there are reciprocal arrangements.

I am seeing that there is a sense of entitlement to live in this country.

My son works in a EU country. Will he want to permanently live there? No idea. But no way does he or I think that he is entitled to live there.
If they want him, fine. If they dont, that is up to them. It is up to the collective citizens of that particular country. He doesnt have a right, imo, to live in any country of the world he fancies.

jake You are of course not ignorant to believe that council houses exist only in London right? Don't you worry, it's in the bag for me!

have, no, I don't have a sense of entitlement to live in this country (though as a matter of fact I am entitled, by the laws of this country). I have explained that I think immigration is a net benefit to this country. That's not being entitled. And it has nothing to do with whether or not I'm an immigrant.

I am entitled to live in this country as I am British, my children (4dc) are also entitled to live in this country as they are British.

I happen to think that my husband is entitled to live in this country so that he can be my husband and be a father to his 4 children.

How anyone can think differently is beyond me.

So do we all think we have an entitlement to live in any country we happen to fancy?

Did we cross-post?

I love the people complaining about how they're entitled to council houses and how dare anyone else not born here be ahead of them get it! Because as noted many many times if you're a lower rate taxpayer, you're a net drain on the economy. If you're trying to get council housing, you're REALLY a net drain on the economy. You're costing the government money every year, and demanding they pay for your housing? Don't even try the old "well I pay tax, I earned it" on me. You didn't pay enough tax. You didn't earn it. Do. The. Fucking. Maths.

I paid that tax. I earned it. And I'm not even eligible. But I don't mind that because I believe quite strongly it is my duty to help those less fortunate than myself. That's basic Rousseau on society.

But the second you start bitching about how you deserve it more than someone else (when you've already been a drain on the economy for years and they haven't) AND GLOATING ABOUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE MORE allow me to be the first to say that you and your attitude are precisely what is wrong with this country on this issue.

I am talking to everyone.

Have are you asking for an opinion (like I gave) or is this a serious factual question.

Let me answer for both possibilities.

Fact - NO we are not automatically entitled to live in any country we choose.

Opinion - I would love to see a world where there was freedom of movement that saw all people as equal. However, I am not naïve enough to think that this will ever happen.

DH is from North Africa and my dad was an immigrant so clearly I am in favour of immigration because my experience of it is positive.

However, whatever we objectively feel about immigration I do think we have to listen to those people who have genuine concerns about the impact of immigration in certain areas. Myths like "housing priority" need to be busted and the UKBA needs to operate with at least moderate efficiency to deal with people like failed asylum seekers and overstayers rather than the complete and utter shambles it is now. (Anyone who has ever had the joy of dealing with Lunar House, Croydon will know what I mean .)

People feel this country is changing and it is easy and simplistic to blame that on immigration. There is a poster on MN who has previously linked immigration to the hunting ban and an erosion of British life. It was pointed out that the hunting ban is more likely to be a product of urbanisation not immigration (DH had no idea about foxhunting). I suspect that some people who express concern about the impact of immigration are really looking for an reason why things are changing away from what they grew up with (a childhood possibly viewed through rose tinted spectacles). Is the country pub closing because there are more North Africans in the area who don't drink or is it because people are much more careful about drink driving now so will probably buy a bottle of wine from the supermarket and drink at home?

Additionally, some of the problems of impact on schools and hospital are not immigration issues but population concentration issues. I live in a London borough with a worsening primary school shortfall but other parts of the country have empty spaces. Not all of the UK is crowded.

have - I was confused because you said 'do we all' just after I and jac had explained specifics, and I thought you must have missed our posts.

Changing tack, rather, I wonder how this conversation will look in a few decades if/when (I think when) elsewhere in the EU starts booming and lower skilled workers start heading abroad for a few years at a go to save a bunch of money and return (which is apparently what is already happening with EU migration. The Poles are going back as they've got savings and experience and Poland is starting to kick in economically. Now Romania, etc.)

In fact, this already seems to happen a fair amount in the Middle East. Loads of people head out to tax free salaries for a few years to Dubai, Saudi, etc and then come back. If this happens more and more and the UK needs people (you know to pay for those like above who are nothing but succulents) this conversation could change rapidly.

My daughter has two passports and gets to keep them. She will get choices about where to live her life. Between EU and NAFTA she can legally work in about half the world. Hopefully they'll treat her better than the idiots on here.

Utterly confused by your post Revenge. I paid tax for 30 years before suddenly needing council housing three years ago. Why am I now a net drain on the economy?

Council houses...especially those built in the Fifties and which are STILL council houses have aid for themselves....any rent is now profit. Just as if a private buy to let LL finishes paying for his property and can now keep ALL the rent rather than repaying a mortgage company......and his mortgage MIGHT have been paid with housing benefit if the tenants require it.

Not all council tenants are unemployed.

BTW, I have NO axe to grind, I worked with many people from all over the world and have many friends of many nationalities. Some remain here, some have gone home. They are from Poland, Italy, Portugal, USA, Romania, Ghana ....I could go on.

I have no issue with immigration.

Cairn, am MORE than aware tat council housing exists outside of London .

Most areas STILL have massive waiting lists....unless of course you are heading to a remote area where there is not much demand. By your chosen name I am guessing remote Scotland.

Actually, mango, lots of immigrants in the UK can't have dual nationality either. Both countries have to allow it, so if their country of origin doesn't permit it, it makes no difference that the UK does.

Revenge yes the return migration has absolutely been happening with Poles, most notably from Ireland as economy there collapsed. It's also been happening with the Indian diaspora in this country; many consider that there are much better opportunities for educated people in India now than in the UK.

I have to say I really take offense to this 'go home' attitude. What about those immigrants who feel more at home in the country of domicile than the country of origin? I know I did when I left the UK.