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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the London Underground staff who use 'elf and safety as an excuse not to help people with buggies at stations without lifts are basically being bone idle

188 replies

quesadilla · 09/09/2013 10:12

Tried to get into central London yesterday alone with dd in buggy. At two separate stations without lifts I asked for help and was told they couldn't because of health and safety or insurance. (And i have heard this several times before.) Given that only about 10 per cent of tube stations have lifts I think refusing to help in any way is lame and amounts to discrimination, albeit of a passive and unintentional kind. I know that sounds a bit hysterical but the practical outcome of this situation is that if your child needs to be in a buggy and if you don't have anyone with you to help you you cannot travel on the underground...

OP posts:
LCHammer · 14/09/2013 22:43

A quick search shows Step Free Access is about ramps and lifts rather than shopping and buggies. The scheme has also been delayed in a number if stations due to money cuts.

CrazyLottie · 14/09/2013 22:49

Whatever the reason for it - it will help anyone who can't use steps. Is that a bad thing?!

It costs money and is complicated - it involves tender, RFI, procurement, London listed buildings/structures/pipes etc, money, planning, legal issues etc.

CrazyLottie · 14/09/2013 22:52

Also - it was built in the 1860s, oldest in the world, there are many problems that derive from that.

SilverApples · 14/09/2013 23:26

So how are all the other people managing who are unaccompanied, with a child in a buggy?
The hundreds of people who use the tube on a daily basis? Confused

nennypops · 15/09/2013 00:28

CrazyLottie, I'm quite sure that someone with weak ankles is not required as part of their job description to help people with buggies on the stairs, given that that will put Chibbs, the baby and quite possibly the parent in danger. I'm also sure that, due to insurance requirements, it isn't in the JD of other LT employees. And as people have pointed out, thousands of people travel with buggies on LT every day, if station staff helped them all they would (a) do their backs in and (b) have no time for anything else.

neunundneunzigluftballons · 15/09/2013 01:41

I used a combination of buggy and sling in situations like this if the outing was too much for a sling. Shove the baby in a sling and continue walking with the empty buggy. Made life a lot less stressful.

kali110 · 15/09/2013 02:17

YABVU

I have severe back damage from lifting heavy objects to help someone at work.it cant be repaired and iv had to live on constant strong painkillers for last 7 years.i had to refuse to lift anything incase it caused my back to spasm. I was very young and i bet you would have thought i was rude and unhelpful. However i couldn't risk hurting myself more, plus if id been off sick my work wouldn't have looked kindly on me as they would have said that i shouldn't have been doing any lifting in the first place.
People have said before that these people aren't insured. If they'd hurt themselves i bet their employer would not have looked kindly on them either!
Plus if god forbid theyd helped you and hurt your child what would you have done then?
People do sue and do get people sacked.
I dont blame them for not helping.

kali110 · 15/09/2013 02:27

Also add that few months ago i had to give up my job i had been doing for over a decade, a job that i loved due to this damage.

MusicalEndorphins · 15/09/2013 05:49

Yabu.

ItsaTIARA · 15/09/2013 08:41

My approach was always to stand at the top / bottom of the stairs ostentatiously making a feeble attempt to pick the buggy up until some nice passer by offered to help. Never failed. And now the DCs aren't in buggies the nice passer by is usually me.

Buses are still a more suitable choice if you have the time.

CrazyLottie · 15/09/2013 19:26

The point is, that due to the nature of their job, LU staff need to be physically fit enough to help customers. Whether that is carrying an empty buggy down the stairs or evacuating the station. If one's ankle is that weak they cannot help carry a buggy they are more suited to a desk job within the company - otherwise the individual poses a danger to themselves and to the customers they have a responsibility for.

It is not in the employee's JD to help carry buggies down the stairs. However station staff are posted (especially at busy stations) to help/advise customers (eg giving directions, controlling "people flow" etc) - and there is no reason this cannot involve helping to carry empty buggies down the stairs. Apart from anything else it helps prevent congestion, and aids LU's "reputation". There is no reason why a fit person cannot help carry an empty buggy.

I am against OTT H&S but there is a real danger carrying a buggy with a child in it down stairs could result in a serious accident. However they ARE insured to carry empty buggies, and, if staff are available to do so, they should be expected to help on an ad hoc basis. If an employee's ankle is that weak that they cannot help carry an empty buggy, they are a danger to themselves and everyone else. Unfortunately terrorist attacks/emergencies are not uncommon today - and that is why being "fit and able" DOES have an impact on who is deemed appropriate to work at LU stations and help customers.

nennypops · 15/09/2013 19:55

I think you're forgetting LT's duties under the Equality Act. It is an entirely reasonable adjustment for them to give work to someone with a weak ankle which takes that difficulty into account. There is more than enough for Underground employees to do without making them help customers with buggies.

CrazyLottie · 15/09/2013 20:05

I agree - that's why I said the individial should be given an office job. I'm not suggesting LU sack people with weak ankles! But it is not appropriate for them to work at stations. How would you feel if there was an emergency when you needed help, but were refused because the individual had a weak ankle?

lurkerspeaks · 15/09/2013 20:11

Sling, backpack or bus.

CrazyLottie · 15/09/2013 20:20

Yup! I had a LU employee refuse to help me with a buggy once because he "was busy". And a load of commuters walked straight past me! Unfair, but true x

kiriwawa · 15/09/2013 20:43

crazylottie - is carrying a buggy up and down the stairs part of their job description or not? You appear to be contradicting yourself quite a lot in your posts.

And I really don't think you're in any position to assess Chibbs' ability to do her job - I presume her role has been properly assessed by someone who's been trained in assessing her ability to carry out her job. Unlike you. Hmm

bunnymother · 15/09/2013 20:44

Not to harp on or anything ... BUT the stations really should be more accessible for people with limited mobility. I have a double buggy for my twins (2.5) and often also have my 4 year old with me, too. It's just not possible for me to lift/drag the pram up with children in it OR to empty it and also control the children. So, I just don't take them on the tube as I can't find a station that is fully wheel chair accessible that is anywhere near me. We catch buses or taxis. But it's terribly unfair that a major part of public transport in London is seemingly unavailable to people in wheelchairs (I don't actually really care about not being able to use it myself as I have other options and my children will grow up and, then, can use it).

Having a big ass pram has really made me see how hard it must be for some people to get around. Apologies for rant / sermon.

CrazyLottie · 15/09/2013 21:03

Erm, read my posts properly - there is no reason why the employee should not carry an empty buggy. JDs are not a full & complete description of what an employee can/cannot do - that would be impossible. I don't really know why you are arguing, I am telling you from a legitimate viewpoint what LU's staff are expected of?! However if you want to try to "win the point" feel free - it doesn't make any difference to the facts.

CrazyLottie · 15/09/2013 21:08

Bunnymother - agree. My MIL is disabled. TFL/LU are trying to help, but it's complicated. In the meantime there is no reason why staff (who are available) shouldn't help you carry your buggy - providing you take the children out of it x

CrazyLottie · 15/09/2013 21:23

And Kiriwawa - why are you saying I have not been properly assessed to carry out my job?! That comment just proves what c£ap you are talking. Calm down dear.

kiriwawa · 15/09/2013 21:28

Your user name is very apt

CrazyLottie · 15/09/2013 21:39

:-)

candycoatedwaterdrops · 15/09/2013 21:41

By not forcing LU staff to carry buggies, the LU are protecting themselves and their staff. I wonder if LU staff do manual handling training? They are there to help and assist, not slave after people who aren't smart enough to work out how to navigate the tube system with heavy items and/or buggies.

CrazyLottie · 15/09/2013 21:48

Don't understand. Why are staff protecting themselves? They are there to help if they are available to do so.

What is society coming to that this is such a big issue??

MurderOfGoths · 15/09/2013 21:53

If it isn't in their job description to carry pushchairs then they don't have to. Easy really.