To think the London Underground staff who use 'elf and safety as an excuse not to help people with buggies at stations without lifts are basically being bone idle

[quesadilla]

Tried to get into central London yesterday alone with dd in buggy. At two separate stations without lifts I asked for help and was told they couldn't because of health and safety or insurance. (And i have heard this several times before.) Given that only about 10 per cent of tube stations have lifts I think refusing to help in any way is lame and amounts to discrimination, albeit of a passive and unintentional kind. I know that sounds a bit hysterical but the practical outcome of this situation is that if your child needs to be in a buggy and if you don't have anyone with you to help you you cannot travel on the underground...

I don't understand all the talk about folding buggies.

Just carry it with baby/toddler in, surely?!

If you want a huge heavy pram for wandering to the shops, fine but FGS get a cheap light stroller for public transport.

And as a PP said, by the time a child is too big to be in a sling they should be well old enough to either walk or at the very least walk down a few stairs. DS is 2.5 and15 kg and I carried both him and newborn DD (one on front one on back) for 4.5 miles last week...

My DD was 15kg and not yet walking at 13 months - some babies really do get too heavy for slings. Agree with everything else though!

YABU. It's not just health and safety, they also have jobs to do and are not there to be free porters. If you can't transport your child safely by yourself on the tube then use a different method of transport. This is your problem to sort out, not London undergrounds. if they had to employ extra staff to lift push chairs etc fares would go up.

Belmo - the upper weight limit for the sling we have (Manduca) is 20 kg. I happily carry 15kg DS for miles in it.

YANU for using the Daily Mail's hideous phrase of 'elf and safety'.

Was meant to say YABU obv.

Really? Am impressed (in a non sarky way). I had a moby then a babyhawk and I loved carrying her but it just got too sore, never mind weight limits. (She's miles over the weight limit for her buggy too tbf but I still use that!)

There are circa 8,000 buses in London, of which 7,984 are pushchair accessible. Hence YABU.

YABU

When travelling on the underground with small person in a buggy it wouldn't occur to me to take them out of the buggy - just balance it on the escalator (going up is easier than going down - as you can brace on your shoulders) and I have done this with 4 year old and baby in tow - on my own. The buggy goes nicely under one arm - when up and loaded. Although I do tend to avoid using a buggy if at all possible as bumping up and down stairs isn't great fun and use a carrier for the baby where possible (baby prefers it as well as she's in a backpack now so can pull random strangers hair..... which has it's own embarassment factor)

I am astonished at all those saying ' walk or take the bus'
Obviously written by people who have never tried taking a buggy on a bus.

We were temporarily living in central London right near a tube (no car) and so many buses would refuse to take us. 'only 1 buggy allowed' (which I know is crap) or would just sail past. One evening we waited 2 hours before we gave up and walked an hour home.

TFL said 'we cannot help. It is up to the drivers' Great cop out.
I concluded that Londoners hate kids and want them only to appear when they are 18.

I think YABU about pushchairs but YANBU about the larger issue. The Underground should be wheelchair accessible everywhere by now! TfL are clearly not taking this as seriously as they ought; I get that it's a huge investment but they have had since the 1980s to start retrofitting lifts. This is why one sees far fewer people in wheelchairs out and about in London than in comparably sized North American cities.
Ultimately mums with pushchairs should make common cause with disabled people and remind the world: everyone starts life in a "wheelchair" (ie buggy) and many of us will end up in one.

From OP I think refusing to help in any way is lame and amounts to discrimination, albeit of a passive and unintentional kind.

I'm not sure the OP fully accepts that the staff are not allowed to help.

They are not being deliberately unhelpful.

CuChullain puts it very well in her post: in order for LU to get insurance cover for their staff they are only permitted to carry out activities within the scope of their job description, carrying buggies is not in that job description.

I have tried taking a buggy on a bus. I didn't try taking a bulky monstrosity though. If using public transport then you take a lightweight foldable stroller, with a backpack to put shopping and baby stuff on so you can easily take baby out and fold up umbrella stroller when you get on the bus and sit with your baby on your knee.

the Underground will NEVER be fully wheelchair accessible. That's because it is 150 years old.

the marvellous American systems you see are much newer.

YABU

You either fold the buggy or ask other travellers for help or carry it yourself

I'm going to set up a stall at every non lift having tube entrance selling umbrella fold strollers and slings and backpacks. Going by the amount of huge travel system type monstrosities that seem to be popular I'll be minted. I will even store your monstrosity for a small fee.

I spent five years taking buggies on the bus, daily for much of that time, and with a Phil and Teds for at least two years. It was a total PITA in the rush hour but outside of that it was fine - the key is to know which stops have people getting off so that you'll be able to get on - just as it is as a foot passenger.

I never used the tube without someone with me when I lived in London and had ds in a buggy. I get the wobbles but the best of times with the height of the escalators and I couldn't balance the buggy on them. I used busses which I found ok in general.

'Do you need training to lift heavy/awkward items regularly? '

Like a baby/toddler for example?
OP you seem to struggle with heavy, awkward items yourself...

I have a double buggy (twins) - I only go to stations with lifts and walk the rest of the way if I take them to London.

If you combine this with the other thread about buggies on buses... basically no one has any sympathy for you on public transport, suck it up, fold up your buggy, use a sling no matter how far you need to walk at the other end of your journey, carry the buggy yourself, hold onto the shopping plus any toddlers also with you, if you can't do all that then you don't deserve to use LU, and above all stop your goddamn bitching. I think that's more or less the proposed MN solution.

I got around with a tiny, foldable buggy with all the DC on & off public transport, and it was total and complete PITA. You can't believe how wonderful the day when your last one is out of the buggy. Just hang onto that thought.

YANBU.

"I am slightly incredulous that people think you need training to help someone carry a pram up some stairs."

Quesadilla - when I started my nurse training, one of the first things they taught us was how to lift, so we could do,it safely, without damaging our backs. If you lift incorrectly, you can do lasting damage - damage that might make a job involving a lot of standing (ie. London Underground station worker) very difficult.

It is not at all silly to suggest that people who are going to do lots of lifting and/or heavy lifting, should learn how to do it properly.

Belmo DS is 14kg and can easily go in the back carry in the Ergo. If I'm going out all day by public transport I take that and the folding buggy, he goes on my back until we finish public transport then into the buggy so I can stuff the carrier underneath and the bag on the handles which is much easier.

And YABU OP: the LU doesn't employ porters, it employs staff to do crowd control, security, train dispatching etc. If every 5 minutes when someone carrying something that will give them difficulty on stairs turns up they have to go and help them then they can't get their actual job done. Additional staff at every station to act as porters would make ticket prices even higher.

OP just buy a new buggy next time you want a day out in London how foolish of you to not think of this very day when you were choosing your pushchair 9 months ago!

TFL website has a good journey planner that has the option to only give routes that have step free access. I would also recommend a sling, you can get some decent ones that last well into toddler hood for half the price of a maclaren. Ours is a connecta and has served me well on plenty if tube journeys.