To think the London Underground staff who use 'elf and safety as an excuse not to help people with buggies at stations without lifts are basically being bone idle

[quesadilla]

Tried to get into central London yesterday alone with dd in buggy. At two separate stations without lifts I asked for help and was told they couldn't because of health and safety or insurance. (And i have heard this several times before.) Given that only about 10 per cent of tube stations have lifts I think refusing to help in any way is lame and amounts to discrimination, albeit of a passive and unintentional kind. I know that sounds a bit hysterical but the practical outcome of this situation is that if your child needs to be in a buggy and if you don't have anyone with you to help you you cannot travel on the underground...

I do agree solar actually. Making public transport accessible to young mothers is genuinely important to their quality of life. For some reason it becomes an "entitled middle class mums" issue when most of the women I see with buggies on the bus are, funnily enough, not exactly over privileged (though actually I'm not sure why being middle class means it's OK for you to be stuck in the house anyway). Or a competitive Four Yorkshiremums "You don't know you're born" conversation.

I get very wound up by the "if only you wore a sling" and "just fold the buggy up" brigade. Large proportions of women with buggies are pregnant or wrangling a pre-schooler, and they are normally using a buggy through choice, not because they're too stupid to realise that a sling is better.

However, the OP is still BU, because tube station staff are not there to lug her buggy up and down steps.

Large proportions of women with buggies are pregnant or wrangling a pre-schooler

And large numbers are complaining that their buggy is too big and it's too much trouble and and...

Oh yes, you do need to suit the size of your buggy to the environment if at all possible. I looooved my tiny microlight Mclaren Volo - DCs are in secondary school and I still have it tucked up in a corner to take the cats to the vet.

four yorkshiremums 'you don't know you're born' really tickled me. When my two eldest were tiny none of the buses had access for buggies. It was buggy under one arm, baby under t'other, toddler's hand in mine and bag slung round my neck with a promise to the driver that I would comee back and pay once I had a hand free... I was overjoyed when buses got buggy access, and I was always overjoyed when I found places with lifts and things rather than bumping the buggy up the stairs.

But if they aren't allowed to help you with your buggy, then shrug. I don 't think reasonableness comes into it. It's always nice to have help, but it's better to know you can do it alone if you have to.

YAB a bit U

I used to get a bit hurt if other passengers saw me struggling and didn't offer to help, but I can quite see why staff don't

as burberry said, those hip seat things are really good.

If they did it all the time they'd knacker their backs.

As a midwife I won't help women who have just had a section sit up. Ideally they stay flat until they can move themselves but I'm certainly not dragging a women to a sitting position day in day out. I've had a few women look pissed off about that and maybe they think I'm been lazy.

I travelled on public transport in London at least once a week with a baby in a buggy until he was 3.5. I never had any problem at all but I did avoid rush hour when I had a massive pram when he was a newborn and ditched the pram for a buggy as soon as possible. No one ever told me to fold the buggy up, I was always helped getting up and down stairs by other travellers and people gave their seat up to me when I had DS in a sling. The only time I couldn't take the buggy on a bus was when there was 2 already there and I was never told to fold the buggy.

I can't honestly see what they could do to make travelling in London easier for new parents actually. The horror stories recounted on here are, I suspect, few and far between. The reality is that most new parents (parents, not just mums, please) manage to get around perfectly easily

I really hesitate to link to my blog here, but mnhq have said it's ok if it's relevant, so here goes

'Fraid to say it really is in the planning. The lack of access on the tube is a bugbear of mine, but it's not something that will change overnight so till then, it's about using accessible tube lines (dlr, some of the jubilee line) or buses or overland trains (overland stations seem to be getting accessible quicker than the tube does!) The tfl website does have some great resources - you can journey plan without stairs etc, or click on an individual station to see what facilities they have. And a dead cheap pushchair is a godsend (think £50 or less) even if you only use it occasionally.

I carry a backpack (changing bag) and a sling to go up the escalators, I usually ask for help with the empty buggy because I do not have hands left (baby is 11 months and I have to hold him when he is in the sling and my other hand to hold the handrail when using the escalator). I wish I was an octopus.

Viva I wanted to ask you if you are allowed to help those women with the nappy changing, when I had my EMCS (about 5 hours after I had my c section, still with the catheter in) I asked for help to change my baby's nappy and I was asked if I had cotton wool. I said yes and the midwife brought me a bowl and said: the bathroom is there (and pointed to the bathroom).

I could have dropped my son and I had to God knows how use my hands and put baby in my lap and change him (thank God I also had wipes next to me (my DH left them there).

Blueberry, that's awful. Where I work yes the midwives would change nappies. We don't want section women getting up till the following day.

I wonder if she wasn't "your" midwife and didnt realise you'd had a section?

We do get some women who think we're on hand to do every nappy change for them even if its their second baby and they've had a normal birth and are outside vpevery ten mins for a fag.

She may just have been horrible, I'm sorry.

I'm quite surprised that people are 'incredulous' that workers are protected from work related injury. It's not in the LU staff's job description to help schlep buggies up and down the escalators or stairs.

Bringing in that disabled people get 'help' is laughable. It's a fucking nightmare being mobility impaired and travelling around in London. No one aids me on the escalators or carries me up the stairs - that would be nice though.

no of course staff should help the million and one parents who travel every day. let them carry your buggy as long as you pay them when they have to retire with severe back problems.😜

to link disabled people using wheelchairs as on a par with a buggy is obscene.

as one who struggled with a double buggy you just get on with it.

And if a member of staff dropped the buggy and your child spilled out, I bet you would be the first to sue.

H&s is also enforced from above, so a kind-hearted tfl employee might find themselves with a disciplinary.

Just re-read the op. It's really not discrimination - mothers are discriminated in many ways so to lump this in kinda belittles true discrimination. Besides, as a pp said it could well be a father travelling with a buggy.

YABU

Why should someone else do your lifting and carrying for you, risking themselves? Take responsibility for yourself on public transport, it's really not that hard.

There are millions of people who manage to transport their babies and toddlers on the tube every day. We manage because we have to, so we don't make such a song and dance about it. It is ridiculous to compare a passenger who might help with one buggy a week to a tube worker standing by a staircase used by one buggy or pram off every train every two minutes during their shift.
If you had posted a rant about how annoying it is that more stations don't have ramps or lifts, i'd be joining in with gusto.As you are whining about jobsworths and ignoring the weight of MN opinion, I join the rest- yabu.

Maybe some of you that are "incredulous" that people need training should look at how much manual handling injuries cost British industry

And OP. for using the term 'elf and safety YABVVVVU

And for using the oh so patronising word "jobs worth". YA also BVVVU

I've found information on the TFL website as to which stations are step free, which stations staff "offer help" with stairs and which don't. E.g at Shadwell station, which has steep and narrow stairs, the staff are happy to help carry up and down to the platform if asked. But at Barnes Bridge there are no staff to help with stairs.

Best to check online before setting out imo. In any case you'd rarely have to wait all that long before a member of the public would help you.

There's also a map showing stations for avoiding stairs on the Tube here

AmIThatHot

It's political correctness gorn mad, I tell you!

Of course yabu, and ridiculous. Are they to help every single woman with a buggy, or just special auld you? Would you spend all day everyday carrying babies and buggies and suitcases up stairs?

OP must be living ina different London to me then as I've always had help at stations. Maybe not from staff but definitely members of the public.

Also, the step free map is great. I am little and get nervous about taking DD up and down escalators by myself so always plan my route accordingly. I've never had a problem, it just takes a little planning which is YOUR responsibility, not the LU staff!

I work on the railway. I would not help. I have a very weak ankle. I fall over ALL of the time. I would not risk hurting myself or a member of the public. - mainly because I'd probably get sued!

also, if you have a giant buggy then you need to be able to sort it yourself.