To agree with the Headmistress to send home pupils who do not conform to regulation school uniform.

[annemary12]

I am totally fed up with school pupils who look a mess and are not dressed in correct or regulation school uniform. I never understand why many schools allow 6th form pupils free will in their choice of clothes.

I think that if pupils are unable to abide by school uniform regulations what hope of they got when they leave school and are going to interviews.

I believe that all school pupils including 6th form pupils should wear a regulation school blazer and school tie so they can show which school they go to.

Headmistress like Leslie ellis are standing up for standards that have been in decline since the 1970"s and need to be fully supported in their desire to hold standards to at least the very shoddy standards that pupils display today. I for one am delighted that a head was prepared to take ridicule and derision in standing up for standards.

After reading the constant criticism of leslie ellis i thought it was time that someone stood up for a upstanding member of the teaching profession.

The Ugly Fuckling Do you agree with the example given, the type of 'enforcement' of Leslie Ellis has practised?

How would you deal with extenuating circumstances?

Also, as I said on another thread,

There will always be some parents who do not support the school even though the school are being reasonable...

The school might even have to give these pupils some leeway if their parents are sending mixed messages and not showing how to behave appropriately. Isolation instead of sending home for example. Otherwise how will they learn? If you give a disproportionate punishment it would only reinforce their parent's standpoint i.e. the school is being unreasonable.

At school, I was passionately grateful for the existence of school uniform. however I, and the situation I was in, were dysfunctional. (By adult standards - I, and the situation I was in, are not unusual for teenagers) I needed it - lord knows I needed it - but it was not a great situation. I am grateful every day for not being a teenager. Teenagers are at constant risk of real violence. It is horrific. why did I have children [sob]

'achieve for the blazer' is in my opinion utter drivel

What sane person is going to want to achieve for a garment which represents in my DCs case a school which occupies a slot in the bottom 20 schools in England?

Any sort of punishment against a student for not owning a garment is spineless bullying by the head.

I really, really hope my lovely daughters' achievement aspirations extend beyond some repulsive polyester garment.

Mindless school loyalty is really quite disturbing in any case. My children are proud of their schools but that is because the school has justified it, not imposed it.

I'm sitting at my terribly respectable desk job wearing black jeans, biker boots and a long tshirt. By the time my four year old son goes to work ties will be obsolete in most workplaces, but he still has to wear a shirt and tie when he starts Reception next week. It's just unnecessary.

Why did Lesley Ellis devise a school uniform so specific that it is hostage to the shortages created by limited supply? So the school can charge whatever it likes for it I suppose... And to punish the children because of her own mistakes was unforgivable. I would be looking for another school pronto if that happened to DS.

The only fair, enforceable uniform is this colour shirt, this colour jumper and this colour skirt or trousers. If a school absolutely has to ram the exclusive point home with logos on everything they should provide sew-on badges.

Oh, and my sister's abiding memory of the 'standards of the 70s' was being made to stand on a chair in front of the class, then wetting herself because the teacher refused her requests to go to the toilet. I think my sister's old teacher would have got on well with Lesley Ellis.

I agree with worry. A school should have some sort of uniform but it should be affordable for all. Punishment should be proportional and children should never be punished for any inadequacies their parents may have.

Discipline shouldn't focus on which brand of (otherwise reasonable) trousers the parents have bought at the expense of dealing with the really important things like stopping bullying, ensuring school work is done etc. It's a diversion and children aren't going to respect any of the rules if so much focus is placed on rules that are impossible for the children to meet and quite frankly ridiculous.

Success and improvement will be achieved by showing the children what they can achieve, enforcing reasonable and workable rules, praising effort and achievement while offering targeted support in areas where there are difficulties.

Children from difficult home lives are in even more need of support. They should not be punished for it. Life will be difficult enough without school effectively punishing you for it. OP, you said your parents didn't care. Ask yourself this, if your school had introduced a uniform that was so expensive that your parents couldn't or wouldn't buy it, if the school had then punished you and humiliated you in front of your class mates would you have suddenly buckled down, worked hard, obeyed all other rules and treated everyone with respect or would you have felt even more resentful for being punished for something outwith your control, seen even less point in trying hard ( because your parents don't care and you'll be punished for that anyway, would you have found it even harder to visualise a way to improve your life.

"what hope of they got"?

perhaps they can write properly, even if they don't have the correct uniform.
So its ok to send kids home with incorrect uniform, but they can't have time off for holiday.
Either education is important or not.
6th formers are college students, not at school anymore and their education is Post Compulsory, hence the relaxation in uniform.
I don't think many would opt for 6th form and go to the local college if they were going to be treated like children

The reason i hated the Girls from the Grammar School was because i so desperately wanted to "Wear that Uniform". Because i did not pass my 11+ i became angry and menace though frustation. Having to wear the "Short" Skirt a scruffy jumper with the mismosh of colours school tie. The Secondary Modern School with its dreadful uniform caused the problems.

My mum and dad were only intrested in drinking "SPECIAL BREW" and Smoking fags. Then one day in 1987 mum decides she as had enough of Dad and that she wanted a life of her own. Unbeknown to me, Mother was very bright being the only girl from her Primary school to pass the County Scholarship, to the Girls Grammar. But you know the story of unable to go, because parents could not afford uniform. So she decides to start studying and eventually ends up with a Degree in English and in 1992 takes up teaching at the age of 49 retiring in 2008 to study for her Masters in English Literature. the Comprehensive school still use her part time for the 6th form.

My sister who is 6 years younger than me benefited from my mother"s
"EPIPHANY" and from mother being very strict passed her 11+ to the same Grammar that mum was not able to attend. My mother was in tears of joy seeing her DD2 in her Grammar School uniform. My sister went on to work for "Price Coppers Waterhouse" as an analyst.

The most amazing thing is i am now the "CHAIR" of the parents Association of my Sisters/Daughters Grammar School. When DC are with Grandma they always say how strict and demanding about their standards in Education and Manners she is. My Mum is mortified how she was when i was growing up and how she messed up my Education and upbringing. I threaten her i will tell the DC about the "SPECIAL BREW" years.

The reason i hated the Girls from the Grammar School was because i so desperately wanted to "Wear that Uniform". Because i did not pass my 11+ i became angry and menace though frustation. Having to wear the "Short" Skirt a scruffy jumper with the mismosh of colours school tie. The Secondary Modern School with its dreadful uniform caused the problems.

My mum and dad were only intrested in drinking "SPECIAL BREW" and Smoking fags. Then one day in 1987 mum decides she as had enough of Dad and that she wanted a life of her own. Unbeknown to me, Mother was very bright being the only girl from her Primary school to pass the County Scholarship, to the Girls Grammar. But you know the story of unable to go, because parents could not afford uniform. So she decides to start studying and eventually ends up with a Degree in English and in 1992 takes up teaching at the age of 49 retiring in 2008 to study for her Masters in English Literature. the Comprehensive school still use her part time for the 6th form.

My sister who is 6 years younger than me benefited from my mother"s
"EPIPHANY" and from mother being very strict passed her 11+ to the same Grammar that mum was not able to attend. My mother was in tears of joy seeing her DD2 in her Grammar School uniform. My sister went on to work for "Price Coppers Waterhouse" as an analyst.

The most amazing thing is i am now the "CHAIR" of the parents Association of my Sisters/Daughters Grammar School. When DC are with Grandma they always say how strict and demanding about their standards in Education and Manners she is. My Mum is mortified how she was when i was growing up and how she messed up my Education and upbringing. I threaten her i will tell the DC about the "SPECIAL BREW" years.

Morethan. You can see that it was a typing mistake. That should have said "WHAT HOPE HAVE THEY GOT".

anne you've kind of helped prove my point. Your mum missed out on her early education because of the price of the uniform. Do you really think this is what shoul be encouraged? A child's right to education being determined by their parents abilty to buy the uniform. Increase the cost of the uniform in more and more schools and the number of children losing out grows. What happens when all of the schools in your area devise a uniform costing hundreds.

I'm really sorry your childhood was so difficult but you seem to be wrongly focusing on the uniform being the issue. It may be difficult to see from where you are but the uniform is not the issue.

My school I forced the uniform rules but the uniform wasn't expensive and wasn't restricted to one supplier. Colour, skirt length, hair style (no unnatural colours) were specified, no denim allowed etc. There were different punishments depending on the type and frequency of the infraction. However patents could shop around, they could use hand me downs and charity shop finds to enable them to afford it. I realise I'm not someone to aspire to but former pupils from my school include senior naval and army officers, senior police officers, consultant surgeons, GPs, successful business owners and many other successful careers

OP for the love of god would you stop using random capitals and speech marks. It makes no sense whatsoever and it's like being shouted at all the time.

Sorry, but I think it's also making your posts much easier to dismiss. They don't look v measured iyswim.

Why are some people being rude and dismissive of me and my opinions?

Why are some people calling me names?

I am not "SHOUTING" at anybody.

I thought that if you have nothing nice to say about someone you should not say anything?

I always look for the positive in people and what they can achieve.

Regarding me being dismissive of "that" school i have tried to get ties going with the school asking them to join with us in a school production. They dont want to know, the head of "our" school has offered
yr12/y13 A level maths pupils to help the numeracy standards of their struggling yr7/8 pupils, they dont want to know. We have offered them help and friendship on many occasions and every time they are not intrested.

No, you're actually not being remotely nice about 'that' school.

annemary using CAPSLOCK is considered shouting on the internet.

In my local area it was the boys grammar that had a reputation for having a drugs problem, as they were the ones who could afford to buy it. They wore blazers and ties, and we wore sweatshirts and polo shirts.

You asked if you were being unreasonable. You have been told you are.

And maybe the school thinks their trained teachers (yes even at "that school") are better than schoolchildren who have never struggled with basic concepts of maths at teaching children with numeracy problems. And that they don't want an act of charity.

I have not called you names, and nothing I've said has been with the intention of being rude towards you or anyone else.

I've just been expressing my strongly held opinion that having a uniform that is so expensive that parents can't or won't buy it then punishing children for it wouldn't fix the issues you describe but in fact may make things worse.

I'm not dismissing your concerns I just happen to disagree on how to address them.

I didn't call you names either, just pointed out that your position doesn't seem very logical but the way you write (random meaningless speech marks and capitals) makes your posts look ranty and illogical which really isn't helping.

Thankyou grumpy/mines. Ok i accept the fact that our pupils have never struggled with Ks2/3 maths. It does not mean they cant be of any assistance in conjunction with teachers though. Why have they not taken up our offer of a joint school production. Why will they not play us at sport?

Perhaps they don't want to? Why should they do this just because you've so kindly offered? My daughter's school has its own school productions planned out. Ditto sports matches.

Tbh, even if the offer was made with the best of intentions, I'd feel deeply patronised as a head to be offered pupils to help my teachers. I think I'd decide I didn't want my students being someone's charity outreach project.

God yes, so would I.

I know of grammar schools in other areas that have great relationships with the non selective schools in their areas.

Why are they not prepared to have a mutually beneficial relationship with us.

Why will they not let us put on extenstion classes for their brightest pupils and give them valuable knowledge in applying for university.

Why do they accuse us of hoovering up their brightest 6th form pupils.
If they had proper 6th form teaching that enabled their brightest pupils to access higher education they would retain more students.

Why do they always say we dont understand the social economic problems they encounter and we have no idea how to motivate disenfranchised pupils with limited advantages.

These are the reasons i say "that" school they dont want to change or improve for their pupils. They want it to stay the way it is now for ever.

Yes but you've admitted there's decades of entrenched rivalry between the schools, maybe the head is worried about that. Maybe they feel patronised and don't like being looked down at.

Or maybe they have improved since your time and its just a tiny minority of trouble-makers now. As you're involved in the grammar not the comp would you know?