AIBU to think that state schools should be achieving this?

[KatyPutTheCuttleOn]

private schools GCSE results

Should state schools be able to achieve results closer to this?

I don't want this to be a private school bashing thread, but really, should state schools be able to achieve closer to this?

These threads always bring out antedotes. There will be times that state schools get additional support wrong, but there are also insistances when private schools gets things wrong. There are good and bad schools in both the state and private sector.

I have a friend whose daughter at the age of five was asked to leave a private school because she was a little slow in learning to write. The same child has just achieved straight As in a different private school at the age of 16. (no special needs support, just decent teaching!)

State schools give fanastic value for money to the tax payer. Our school system is not perfect, but it does not need smashing aka Gove style.

It would be marginally more fair to compare the results of a state school's top seven per cent or so of students with those of most private schools. One way or another, independent schools cream the best students - whether by ability, parental income or family attitude towards and commitment to education.

Sorry-hugely badly worded. Not the "best" students-the students most likely to achieve high grades.

ifonly

Personally, I don't believe that private schools are stuffed with very clever students. They are mostly ordinary kids who have the benefit of an extraordinary education.

IfOnly
It would be marginally more fair to compare the results of a state school's top seven per cent or so of students with those of most private schools
The data is there.
I've requested it in writing from the dfe many times over the years
BUT
It will never be published - as the uproar of parents who find out they have wasted a fortune is more than ANY political party could bear
(especially as politicians of all hues are the most sharp elbowed of all about their own kids)

'...antedotes' bit of Feudian slip there? Do you mean anecdotes or antidotes?

Anecdotal evidence is important, it informs on the statistics, which are meaningless if all that is all there is, they are just figures which can be interpreted every which way. For every anecdote there is a statistic. They can infact form the antidote to some incorrect interpretations.

Whilst I have every support for SEN it is disingenuous to say just " A lot of my child's additional support, as detailed in his Statement and IEPs would have had no extra cost, or particularly time or extra staffing - just extra thought or consideration." The reason it is written down is because these needs do require some individualisation but in a class of 30 if I spend even 5 minutes out of a sixty minute lesson focussing on one child's needs it is taking time from the others. Obviously I do this but if it is the same child every lesson someone will not be getting the attention. I am responsible, as the classroom teacher, for the education of 200 pupils each year some SEN, some with complex emotional needs that are not necessarily long term but important just the same. For eg the child whose grandparent has just died or mother has been diagnosed with BC, large classes do have an effect and since in the state sector we have larger classes and more pupils with SEN etc it does and will have an impact.

It would be marginally more fair to compare the results of a state school's top seven per cent or so of students with those of most private schools

Private schools have the richest 7% of students, they don't necessarily have the brightest 7%. It could be argued that sending your child to private school is about quality of life rather than necessarily academic results.

State schools are a bit like IKEA, the product many state schools offer is perfectly good enough. Plenty of state school kids do get straight As and get into top universities.

If you have a bit more money then your child can enjoy a higher level of luxury.

IloveGeorgeclooney I am talking about needs that require no extra time or resources. Needs which are different but equal.

Like being able to sit on their seat at carpet time, due to physical needs or being able to stand near the front of a line in order to follow the teacher. There are many examples.

I'd definitely agree that they don't have the brightest seven percent. I do think they probably have some of the best placed to achieve exam success. The two aren't necessarily the same. If you add that to the academic advantages provided by the private school experience while they're there and it's not a huge surprise.
Mind you, when entering the real world (and I guess some young adults never really do) I would say that a good state school education could prove a real advantage.

IGCSEs an absolute doddle

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes
"Personally, I don't believe that private schools are stuffed with very clever students. They are mostly ordinary kids who have the benefit of an extraordinary education."

If I had a groups of children that had a baseline grade of a C target grade and the range was no more than A*-C I could do a huge amount more with the classes that I have.

To build in differentiation from A*-G is not a simple task, add in the SEN requirement for a group (average 5 pupils in a class of 30) and it becomes monumental.

Think about what a state schools could do if the cohort was only the top 10%

How do you calculate the 'top 10%' though?

Posted too soon.

I realise there are kids with SEN but these children exist in the private sector as well.

If my school just used the figures for the top 75% of last years cohort we would easily outdo most indies, and we are an inner city school with 40% EAL! Just worked it out: 96% gold standard, 100% 5 A*-C. Our VA wouldn't be as good though!

To be honest tiggy I find your post a bit depressing. I don't think the presence of some elements of challenging behaviour in any way excuses the chasm between private and state sector results. If this is such a huge problem politicians and teachers should be working tirelessly to work around this problem. No doubt I'll hear teachers saying they do try to resolve it, but if this is the case, what exactly are the methods used, and why aren't they working!

That's fantastic Ilovegeorgeclooney

justgive

You take the top 105 of available intake at a point in time by test.

As for the SEN as Tiggy posted private/independent schools don't have to cope with the same range of SEN that state schools do.

Danica

its interesting that just as state schools are allowed to take IGCSEs they start saying that they are too easy.

Let's just get this clear, despite Gove/Daily Mail saying so GCSE grade C and above are not just given out for turning up. What would be the value of an exam that 99% got a C or above for?

BTW teachers are working tirelessly to improve but we cannot cure all the problems of this broken society which has elements that have never worked since Thatcher.

To be honest Just I find your post naïve and insulting and I doubt you have a clue about what is 'challenging behaviour'. How would you deal with an SEN 13 year old boy who is playing up because his stillborn sister is in his sitting room for over a week? Do you have a simple solution? Because I didn't and it took the school, SS, Police and mental health professionals a lot of time to sort out.

I honestly don't believe that the 'top 10%' of state primary kids is any less clever than those who opt for private education and as such, don't therefore understand the disparity in grades further along the track.
As for SEN if this is affecting the education of state educated kids to the extent that bright kids are underperforming (which they are if they don't achieve the same grades as their private counterparts) why aren't there better strategies to avoid this?

Sorry if I am being rude, probably pissed off because I go back tomorrow and my sister who works in an indie has another 10 days!

Perhaps I am being naive. I went to a bog standard comp. I know what challenging lives some people can have. A girl in my school , together with her mother worked as a prostitute. My DH had possibly the most 'challenging' childhood imaginable but I don't see these things as an automatic reason for a lost education.

I understand ilove that it's really fucking hard. A family member worked in a school in my home town where school shoes were left at school because if they went home, they'd be sold by drug addicted parents. Despite this the school was amazing and the results were first class.

A relative of mine was asked to leave a famous public school at 15 a couple of years ago as they were unlikely to get any top GCSEs. Job done.