All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

[difficultpickle]

AIBU to think that is what has happened in the House of Commons this evening?

Having listened to the debate today I am truly shocked and saddened by the outcome.

[ShellyBoobs]

YokoUhOh

What's your point?

Is it that because you don't see others trying to help (which isn't true, by the way) we should just watch, too?

[GoshAnneGorilla]

The FSA, or Free Syrian Army is a force composed of Syrians from across Syria. They are fighting to depose the Assad dictatorship and install a multiparty democracy.

[BMW6]

No-one can just go in and sort it all out. There is a terrible truth to be faced - each country has to evolve itself, over many generations, just as the West has (and continues to).
Thousands of innocent lives will be lost. Tragic and horribly inevitable.

The USA, GB, France et al are NOT the workd's police, nor can we impose our authority on any other country.

Sorry, but we MUST keep out of it.

[SeaSickSal]

YABU. Us trying to be world police hasn't worked out that well has it?

What's happening there might be horrific but it is nothing compared to the casualties that could occur if attacks on surrounding countries like Israel, Turkey or Cyprus happened. And heaven forbid we ended up in a war with Russia or China.

Incidentally the UN was set up for a reason and we shouldn't go against the UN, we wouldn't like it if Russia or China went after a country we tried to protect with the veto.

We have to get away from this idea that western countries can solve the problems of the world by going in and bombing the fuck out of everybody we disagree with.

[BMW6]

OMG I've just realised that basically it's the Non Intervention Directive from Star Trek.

[SeaSickSal]

Nancy75 the government believes it has a legal argument which proves that it can act without approval from the UN within international law. But it's one of those situations where they could probably argue that the sea was red and the sky was green if it suited their ends.

[nancy75]

Seasicksal, thank you for the explanation.

[ShellyBoobs]

I'm surprised at the number of people cluelessly posting about the UN (presuming they mean the UNSC), seemingly oblivious to its make up and purpose.

[ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm]

"The FSA, or Free Syrian Army is a force composed of Syrians from across Syria. They are fighting to depose the Assad dictatorship and install a multiparty democracy."

Nope, definitely not writing in invisible ink, GoshAnne.

We wont mention the "Shock troops " of the FSA, eh ?

You know, the lads that want the restoration of the Caliphate, and Sharia Law..........

[penguin73]

People are incredibly naive if they honestly believe that there will be no UK military involvement in some form. One marginally defeated vote in the House of Commons will not prevent this when it is what the Government and its most powerful allies want, it will just be spun in a different way or will happen covertly.

[HoldMeCloserTonyDanza]

It's interesting the way everyone mentions Iraq and Afghanistan and not Kosovo or Sierra Leone or Libya.

[scaevola]

This is the text of the motion that was voted down.

As you will see, it included both a commitment to return to the House for a second vote before any UK troops could participate, and was concerned only with legal, UN backed military intervention anyhow.

[Lazyjaney]

Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya.....

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Things - the Islamist groups are JAN, ISIS and others. Not the FSA.
I know all Muslim types are probably the same to you, but there are differences.

Did you also see my comment up thread about life in Syria and exactly why the uprising took place?

[edam]

I'm torn on this. It's probably too late now. If we had gone in to help the rebels far earlier, perhaps there wouldn't have been room for terrorist/extremist groups to enter.

It feels like we stood back and watched some time ago, and now I doubt whether there's much good we can do either going in or staying out. I just wish someone far wiser than me had the answer - something that could be done to help the victims of Assad's evil regime.

[YokoUhOh]

Shelly my point is that you discussed a 'neighbours' analogy when we all know full well that the Syrian people have been abandoned by their neighbours.

I found this article by Hans Blix in The Guardian to be very informative and balanced: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/28/chemical-weapons-west-global-policeman

I'm also appalled at the behaviour of the Tory front bench during the Syria debate: sniggering, really?

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Holdme- that is because they are not very bright. Also because they think of Arabs and/or Muslims as indistinguishable untermenschen.

[northernlurker]

Elements of the FSA have been linked to brutal action though. There's nobody involved who has no blood on their hands.

[FreudiansSlipper]

it is appalling that we are not doing anything how the fuck can we sit back after what we have seen on the news this week

though happy to barge into Libya and save our oil

i was so disappointed with Obama's speech last week, he himself looked ashamed

[Lazyjaney]

The FSA, or Free Syrian Army is a force composed of Syrians from across Syria. They are fighting to depose the Assad dictatorship and install a multiparty democracy

Egypt.

[HoldMeCloserTonyDanza]

I think long wars that caused great loss of life stick in the mind more than quick bombing campaigns that saved vulnerable countries from crimes against humanity.

But it's weird that apparently nobody remembers them.

[ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm]

How very patronising, GoshAnne.

It is very well documented that the Islamist groups are fighting alongside the FSA, and have been praised by FSA commanders for their bravery.

The FSA, as you will be very well aware, also stand accused of horrendous war crimes.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Yoko - where do you think the Syrian refugees have gone? To their neighbours. Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and Iraqi Kurdistan have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees.

Turkey, Saudi and Qatar have been supplying small arms to rebels, bigger shipments haven't been permitted.

[ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm]

So it wasn't Muslims,amongst others, we were trying to protect in Kosovo, then, GoshAnne

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Anything the FSA have done pales into comparison to what the regime has inflicted, this is the regime which fired on peaceful protesters - remember? The regime which has massacred whole villages, fires scud missiles on civilian populations, repeated airborne attacks and of course gassing. It is regime violence that people are fleeing, not the FSA.

No the FSA and Islamist forces are not indistinguishable either.