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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be bloody pissed off that the CSA...

208 replies

fanjangolo · 28/08/2013 21:31

take child tax credits from one set of children living with the Non resident parent, to give to their other child regardless of the resident parents income.

Child Tax Credits are given to lift children out of poverty and then the CSA take them, shoving them back into poverty - even if the child they are giving this money to lives in a wealthy household.

OP posts:
Original poster
fanjangolo · 29/08/2013 00:00

Sorry all but I'm having to go to bed thank you for all your comments.

OP posts:
needaholidaynow · 29/08/2013 00:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jacks365 · 29/08/2013 00:03

I understand your view about taking with one hand and giving with the other but how would you feel if you dh earned enough to not claim ctc but no allowance was made for your children in that instance. It's never going to be right which ever way they do it, someone will always be annoyed.

EasyMark · 29/08/2013 00:03

Op just from your posts on here I can see why the other mother does not want her child spending weekends with you and your OH, even if the reduction in maintance would be nice for you Sad

needaholidaynow · 29/08/2013 00:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
fanjangolo · 29/08/2013 00:08

easy, the mother never wanted oh to be involved, made that decision before I was even on the scene again. What has my OH done?! They had a fling, she didn' want it to get serious, she didnt want someone involved in 'her' childs life whom she did not have any interest in. She met her current partner whilst about 5 months pregnant who she has always wanted to be the biological father. But he isnt. That's literally it.

OP posts:
Original poster
fanjangolo · 29/08/2013 00:08

jacks i agree with you. I stand corrected

OP posts:
Original poster
fanjangolo · 29/08/2013 00:12

needaholiday you are right. would save a whole lot of messing about. I was enraged I thought my kids were losing out on X amount from CTC but having actually got my head around it it's practically no difference due to the deductions from accountable wage because of them. (not making sense sorry, tired). Have googled and looked at several sites where a lot of parents are equally horrified and confused by the system.

OP posts:
SaucyJack · 29/08/2013 00:14

From what you've said here, I agree with you.

needaholidaynow · 29/08/2013 00:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IneedAsockamnesty · 29/08/2013 00:16

I'm a bit cut and dried about this but sometimes you have to stop getting advice on a matter and just go and do it.

You can consult as many different people as you fancy but nothing is going to change the fact that its still not doing anything.

He could spend the next 16 years getting advice and still not do anything about it.

JenaiMorris · 29/08/2013 00:18

I'm being torn asunder here by, on the one hand, my utter outrage that 'feminist' seems to be being used here as an insult, and on the other by my coming over all Daily Mail at the way people seem to go about conceiving children by randomers with such gay abandon.

I don't understand the financial thing btw - I trust you're not denying that your Dh should be funding his other child? If you weren't eligible for tax credits then your children would still be losing out financially by dint of having a half-sibling - the more children a parent has, the less cash there is to share between them.

Assuming he really is in a shit job with dreadful pay though I can see that rather than having slightly less spent on each at Christmas this could mean real hardship. Do you work? Are jobs particularly hard to come by round your way? Apols if you've answered that already.

StephenFrySaidSo · 29/08/2013 00:19

i do agree OP- it's not an aspect of CSA i had considered as my exp has no other children so there is no complication wrt to what he does (when he does Hmm) pay.

i think the whole system needs a huge overhaul. everything from benefits, wages, tax credits and child maintenance all needs scrunched up, fired in the bin and rewritten. cant see it happening any time soon (because i'm not yet PM Wink) but it is well overdue.

StephenFrySaidSo · 29/08/2013 00:24

i agree sock

OP do you know your DH can self represent in court? there are a lot of resources available online to give him a basic idea of what he needs to do to get contact with his child.

i initially used a solicitor but it got to the point where i was being charged £90 and hour for a 15 minute meeting (she didn't do parts of the hour) so that she could read out to me a letter sent by the other solicitor and ask me what her secretary could type in response Hmm

well i can do that myself for free so i did- i just wrote to the other solicitor and told them all correspondence was to be sent to me and i dealt with it all myself- if i could do it at 19YO then i'm sure your DH can do it too.

jacks365 · 29/08/2013 00:25

Fan just a thought to mull over if you not your dh were the principal wage earner then the ctc would not be taken into account.

The system is rubbish but can anyone think of a fairer one that works across the board?

StephenFrySaidSo · 29/08/2013 00:41

jack i think the CTC would still be taken into account as they have a joint claim because they live together.

a fairer one would be a national minimum payment with no reductions for anything and only increased once the NRP earnt above a certain threshold (the tax credit cut off point would be a good threshold- meaning no child would be getting a cut of another child's tax credits because NRP would be earning enough to not have to claim)

MamaTo3Boys · 29/08/2013 00:43

In my experience CSA don't take CTC into account at all :S

My XP has had another child since we split up and so claims CTC for this child

However, I still only recieve £5 per week from him as this is the flat rate for people on benefits (which he's on)

I got £5 per week before he had another child and I still get £5 per week now.

When I put my claim in they didnt even ask me if he claimed CTC, they were just interested in any wages from working

belatedmaybe · 29/08/2013 00:44

I am really confused by this, sorry if this has been addressed earlier but I got fed up of trawling through all the ranty agenda making up thread.

Ctc is awarded according to parent income and the number of resident children. In the case of separated families the rp receives Ctc, the nrp is not entitled.

Therefore Ctc cannot - morally at the very least - cannot be taken from one family to another?

The only thing that makes sense is if they are including the wtc as income but not the Ctc as the rp is already in receipt of Ctc for the child in question here. Confused

IneedAsockamnesty · 29/08/2013 00:48

Belated the nrp is entitled to tax credits if he goes onto have other children or existing children live in the home and he is named on a joint claim with those children's mother.

So he is not claiming tax credits for the children that live elsewhere.

MamaTo3Boys · 29/08/2013 00:49

Belatedmaybe - thats exactly why they don't take CTC into account. Thank you. This is the point I was trying to make in my post. Somehow I think I missed it entirely :S

jacks365 · 29/08/2013 00:54

Stephen my apologies wtc is deemed to be the highest earners so would be taken out of the equation but ctc would still be counted. It would still reduce what the nrp paid though which is worth taking into account.

Good suggestion but what would you set the flat rate to.

Mamato3boys because your ex is on benefits it is a flat rate irrespective of his income however if he gets a job it would be taken into account, the csa have the figures because they are all part of the inland revenue now.

MamaTo3Boys · 29/08/2013 01:00

Ah that's not fair though is it really :/

I'd tell CSA to stop my claim altogether if they started taking someone's CTC to give to my children. It just wouldn't sit right with me. I'd be lost without my CTC (sad but true) so I wouldn't like to be awarded someone else's

StephenFrySaidSo · 29/08/2013 01:11

"Stephen my apologies wtc is deemed to be the highest earners so would be taken out of the equation but ctc would still be counted. It would still reduce what the nrp paid though which is worth taking into account."

ah i hadn't realised this.

"what would you set the flat rate to."
i'm no economic genius but those that work out the NMW, tax credits, benefits etc (apparently) base it on something. there are also people who work out the actual cost of living so i am guessing it would be possible to work out a basic cost of feeding, clothing, sheltering, washing etc a child per week using a similar method and arrive at a figure that was used nationally as a legal minimum. obviously it would increase inline with inflation like NMW.

jacks365 · 29/08/2013 01:13

Mama it would mean his other child benefits from both a reduction in maintenance paid to you plus the ctc so it's your child who would lose out, is that fair?

StephenFrySaidSo · 29/08/2013 01:14

btw i have no doubt that whatever rate would be decided upon wouldn't be enough for some but it would be more than the zero some children are getting currently. really they need to tackle enforcement first before they decide on figures people can just continue not paying.

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