to think a man and a woman can't be friends?

[QueenBach]

Seems to be the sad conclusion that I've reached.

I've been working at a new place for 4 months now, have a desk next to a guy - really like him, he's funny, easy to chat to and we have very similar tastes. I do not like him in any other way but friendship and he has a girlfriend who he loves.

Like I mentioned we have very similar tastes and both love the same music. They are playing in our home city next year and I'd love to ask him to go (I have very different music tastes to my friends and therefore they wouldn't want to go with me - fair enough.)

However I would never ask him because he has a girlfriend and I'm sure most women wouldn't their partners going on an evening out with a female work colleague. So our friendship sticks to work hours and we would never communicate or meet up or text - so can't really develop that as a friendship.

Another guy at work I was friendly to him, if we had a break together we would go outside and chat. He asked if I was single when very soon on (I am) and towards this last month has been pushing me to go on a date with him. Why can't we just be friends?

Now I'm not a Samantha Brick and definitely not as good looking as her either but it seems to me if a man is in a relationship is quite a no go zone to start a friendship with him and if they are single then the majority of the time it will turn in a sex or relationship thing.

So from my experiences (there are other examples but these are the most recent ones) men and women can't be just friends.

[MistressDeeCee]

I do have a close male friend. But Ive known him for many years, long before I met my DP. I introduced him to my DP and they get on well enough. Aside from him, all my friends are women. Same with DP he has a good female friend theyve known each other since the age of 3 and I get on well with her too.

I wouldnt meet a new male friend tho,nor would I want my DP to suddenly have a new female friend. We have friends already, both individually and as a couple. I wouldnt say Im a jealous person but I dont like hassle in life and certain situations do have the potential for hassle.

[GalaxyDefender]

It's perfectly possible. In fact, most of my best friends in life have been male - when your hobbies belong to traditionally "masculine" spheres it can be very hard to get on with other women because you simply have nothing to talk about.

I find it weird that some of you don't think it's okay for your other half to have friends of the opposite gender. That immediately speaks of lack of trust, no? I wouldn't care if a partner of mine had a female friend, and I've been dumped for a new-found friend before!

I've also been that new female friend, and not once have I had problems with jealousy from girlfriends. That said, I'm a bit of a munter so maybe they just didn't feel threatened by me

[cory]

But blueshoes, if I am only meeting a friend to talk about interests we have in common, then any jealousy would be unfounded, would it not? Some posters seem to suggest that one should always be suspicious of one's spouse.

[blueshoes]

Cory, your male friends pre-dated your long term relationship?

[cory]

My best male friend predated it, yes.

But I would also go out and have a drink with a male colleague/friend at a conference, or have lunch with a male colleague at work.

And fwiw, the first 10 years of dh's and my relationship were mainly longdistance- we lived in different countries. If we had been given to constant speculation about what the other part was up to, we would have driven ourselves insane.

Dh knows that any jealousy would be unfounded because I love him and him only. And tbh I don't find it much of a problem: I don't really want to shag most men I meet, so it's not massively difficult to keep my hands off them.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

faberge 'But if we carried out a poll of people with long and happy marriages, I very much doubt that many of those people would have had cross gender friendships that weren't part of a couple or a shared friend.'

Best part of two decades for me. We both have friends of the opposite sex. Some are shared, some aren't. We both go on 'lunches, trips out' and have phone calls/email and text conversations with our opposite-sex friends.

As for 'I have a spinster aunt who has male married friends calling to 'blow off steam'. She lost my respect.', is this a Jane Austen novel? 'spinster'? Really? And I wonder if she gives a flying one about your respect.

[cory]

I would say it is exactly my oldfashioned respect for the marriage vows (and before that for the commitment of a longterm relationship) that means I can't see a problem with having meals out or friendly conversations with the opposite sex: I know that the risk that I will give in to an overwhelming urge to throw myself into their arms (even should they happen to want it, which they probably don't) is minimal. I have chosen dh. That's all I need to know.

[ViviPru]

This thread is annoying because there are levels of nuance and differentiation that people are neglecting to acknowledge and are just responding (understandably so given the thread title) based on the simple fact of whether men and women can be friends per se. Of course they can, but that's not the point here.

The crux of this issue is the OP is lamenting her inability to strike up a new friendship with the male colleague, exclusive of his DP and her appreciation that:

most women wouldn't their partners going on an evening out with a female work colleague

Had said male colleague mentioned that he'd love to see X band but his DP didn't like them, then I think it's different. I wouldn't be happy if DH did anything in our (rare) leisure time with a new friend that I would enjoy doing with him too (and that new friend)

[blueshoes]

Cory, I asked because I (and I believe the OP) draws a distinction between longstanding male friends and new ones you make at work after your married your dh.

My dh occasionally meets up alone for lunch or drinks with a few of his colleagues (same trainee batch) or female uni mates. But I have met them in other social situations and happy to leave him to meet up with them separately to talk shop or relive glory days because they aren't all that attractive anyway

The key is occasional. Your example about drinks with a male colleague/friend at a conference, or have lunch with a male colleague at work is fine if occasional. I do that too. But if it is a friendship with a vaguely attractive colleague or schoolrun parent with regular one-on-one meet ups especially if the friendship developed recently, I would be cautious.

"Jealousy" is too strong a word because there is no evidence of actual cheating to be jealous about. I am not naive though.

BTW, no matter how much I enjoy a male colleague's company, I would apply the same restrictions to myself. It is massively disrespectful to my dh to invite gossip by being regularly seen with one male colleague, even if both of us were just innocent "friends".

It is a continuum and no brightlines. But we have to draw our own boundaries. Using emotive words like "unfounded jealousy" is goading and IMO missing the nuances.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

'most women wouldn't their partners going on an evening out with a female work colleague'

That's not an appreciation, it's one person's opinion and it's not based on anything useful to this situation. What does she know about her colleague's girlfriend's attitude to opposite-sex friends? Or her colleague's attitude, for that matter?

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

'I have met them in other social situations and happy to leave him to meet up with them separately'. Happy to?!?! Seriously? People vet their partners' social activities and companions and decide whether or not they're 'happy' for them to go on?

I wouldn't dream of checking out my partner's female friends to make sure I'm 'happy' for him to see them (or to reassure myself that they're not that attractive ) and he wouldn't dream of doing the same to me. Because we respect and trust each other.

'It is massively disrespectful to my dh to invite gossip by being regularly seen with one male colleague'. God, I still feel as if we're in 18th-century Bath. Do people really have such tiny dull lives as to gossip about a person being seen with another person? And do people CARE about any gossip emanating from such people?

[cory]

I have no reason to assume that I would be inviting gossip by regularly having lunch with a male colleague. In fact, now you mention it, two of my colleagues (one happily married, the other single) do have lunch together very frequently. They have interests in common, they are good friends, they talk. Noone has ever felt the slightest urge to gossip. It's not that kind of environment.

How do you define attractive anyway? Sounds a bit like teenagers where you have a definite list of where every member of the opposite sex ranks in attractiveness. If I thought dh was checking out my colleagues in terms of some kind of ranking lists of attractiveness I would be seriously bemused. How would he know?

Ime the people who do have affairs are usually not obviously attractive to the onlooker: their one defining characteristic is that they are people who are up for an affair.

[cory]

Come to think of it, most of the "adulterers" I have known have been very plain. Not that it matters.

[MrsMinkBernardLundy]

OP people suggested you ask gf too. you says perhaps you would feel like third wheel.

Would that be so disastrous? You get to see the band. you get to meet his gf and you might not feel like the third wheel.

With partners i generally go by i will happily meet any of my male friends gfs and look them in the eye. i have nothing to be ashamed of. and if my dp has a female friend as long as they will look me in the eye then we are fine. if they start excluding me or won't meet me in first place then i wonder why.

You could also ask someone else to come too. then you will not be third wheel.

Unless you really want to go just the two of you?

[ViviPru]

Good point MrsMink, that I have overlooked.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

I have a male friend that I have known pretty much since birth. We have always been excellent friends, nothing more at all, not even a drunken teen snog. I was delighted when he got married, and was keen to befriend his wife, but she was always extremely "off" with me, and in the end, I just gave up. I still see my friend intermittently for drinks and dinner, but never his wife. Our kids are the same age, but have never met, which I think is a shame. I initially suggested getting us all together one weekend, but he said although he thought it would be a great idea, just to drop it, as his DW "had a real problem" with our friendship. They have been married 25 years this year, and DH and I have been married 20 years...

I also have a good male friend that I met through work, and I now see more of his DW than I do of him, as we hit it off straight away.

[Littleen]

I think it's fine - although easier if both are in a relationship (or just one, and the other respects this fact). Have lots of male friends, although have been errr with most of them, once or twice, in my very hypymanic single phase. But they know it was just for fun, and we're not just platonic friends with the odd flirty comment. (Which I see nothing wrong with, I flirt with everything and everyone) My boyfriend also doesn't mind, as he knows that if I wanted to be with these blokes, I would have got with them when I had the opportunity, and I didn't - I got with him :)
He also has female friends, and his best friend was a girl - although she's now more my best friend than his!

Would however feel weird if he or I made new, single (close) friends of the opposite sex now, because it would perhaps feel like a "back-up" friend, if that makes sense. The ones from before our time together are fine though :)

[blueshoes]

I suppose plain people would invite less gossip.

Our respective offices are bursting with young and not so young but mostly thrusting individuals. I work in the City, if that makes any difference.

[cory]

Sounds a horrible environment, blueshoes. Not like that where I work: far more respect and interest in people as people than in superficial attractiveness and gossip.

[SmiteYouWithThunderbolts]

Hmm, interesting topic, OP. My H has some female friends he's very close to (one was his best "man" at our wedding!) and I have no issue at all, but then again he has one or two that just set off some territorial response in me. I couldn't tell you exactly what the difference is between any of these women, but I do react differently to his friendship with some than others.

I have lots of male friends I'm very close to without being attracted to in the least and AFAIK H isn't at all bothered by this.

I think on balance, YABU. Yes some friendships will cross over into attraction, fleeting or long term, but that doesn't mean that all cross-gender friendships are doomed.

[Bahhhhhumbug]

My DH has lots of female friends , has stayed friendly with all his exes (except first wife, very acrimonious on her part but even with her is on 'civil' terms now). This is mainly because he has lived all his life in the same town so lots of lifelong schoolfriends etc. both male and female. I couldn't be married to him if l was the jealous type put it that way. Always some random woman squealing and throwing her arms round his neck when we are in a pub or whatever. One ex practically mounts him - I just roll mi eyes
I have several male close friends who were just friends of his when we met. I have been out with a couple of them to various 'do s' etc when DH cant make it or just doesn't fancy. Albeit with other people in our group present but still have travelled there with them , walked in with them , on our own - yes - a man and woman who are not an item .
I love the fact l can do this and l love having male friends as my first H was very possessive and suspicious and no way could l have so much as walked to the corner shop with a male back then !!

[blueshoes]

Cory, I am also getting stereotypical impressions of the place you work, but to each their own.

[LookingForwardToVino]

I would say yabu...

but then I am about to marry my best friend so maybe that proves your point haha

[fabergeegg]

These threads are always interesting because there seems to be such a militant voice coming out of the mouths of relatively few posters who pretty much take over the threads most times. I don't think they realise they're doing it - or realise that others with different viewpoints tend to turn away after a few posters have been angrily shot down. Why does it touch such a nerve? If you're going to get so cross with anyone who has a different opinion, why not leave the thread? Why stay to make sure that every...last...opinion... to the contrary has been stamped out?

I was interested to hold an unpopular position a few months ago, on a thread that excited this kind of black/white thinking (in that instance it was overseas aid, I think) and it was a bit sad - posters who agreed with my viewpoint kept messaging me privately because they didn't want to be ripped to pieces. That's not how a discussion is supposed to work, you know. Or you can do it if you like, but be aware that it's not an open discussion when a few are prowling around like tigers, making sure that nobody who holds an opposing view is allowed to make a nuanced point. If people who disagree get on your nerves, why not let the thread die?

One technique that I've seen occurring over and over is the habit of a little baying mob forming, then cutting and pasting phrases from unpopular posts in order to discuss it between themselves, often in a humiliating way. Again, I suppose you can tell yourselves this is a frank discussion if you wish, but it does seem to be a cheap way to clear everyone else off the thread as it's so humiliating and alienating to see one's own words over and over with a disparaging one-liner tacked up.

If people here see something beautiful about choosing each other everyday despite having many friends of the opposite sex, then I suppose that's up to them. If it's worked for you for three million years, fine. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with an opinion that it is not fine for most of us, in principle. If you wish to judge married men who won't be cool with accompanying you to gigs because they just don't do that kind of thing, that's your decision. I'd be surprised if such a person would hit it off with you anyway!