to think that if you don't like children, then don't...

[gintastic]

go to Frankie & Benny's for lunch on a bank holiday Saturday.

Lots of tutting and humpfing from the elderly couple sat next to me and 3 DC's. They were all behaving nicely, eating properly, good manners etc.

Couple in question had a nice discussion about how eating out was a luxury and children today are spoilt, and how they didn't know anywhere where you can eat in peace these days.

Well, it certainly won't be F&B's, they are very kid orientated!

Would you have said anything, given that they didn't say anything to me, just had a loud conversation that I could hear and did lots of pointed looks at my 3yo when he dropped his fork on the floor...

Filly

I have children. I love children. I work with children. I can't abide some parents' inability/unwillingness to control their children and there are places I actively avoid when I don't feel up to a noisy meal. The trouble is there are very few places like that around.

Silly old grumps.

And with more and more couples opting to remain child free, this hostility is likely to get worse. Some people feel like we live in a too child centric society, they are not going to benefit in any way from being around children, neither are the children.

thecatfromjapan for such a lovely post.

Silly old grumps

Duck and cover pawprint!

That is so true about teenagers.

I've no idea if they're "my" thoughts, catinabox. I really, really doubt I'm the only person who's ever thought them - but I don;t really go out enough to meet other people who think about these things (thank goodness for mumsnet - it really is nice to talk to other people about "different" stuff).

I think the anger is misdirected against the OP

My objection was not to the OP's post but to a couple of the subsequent comments.

Don't worry about it - typical passive-aggressive old-person English behaviour. They read the Daily Mail

Old bastards

I just don't see loads of badly behaved children around. I do notice far, far more frequent anti-social/ill-mannered behaviour from people old enough to know better though.

And with more and more couples opting to remain child free, this hostility is likely to get worse. Some people feel like we live in a too child centric society, they are not going to benefit in any way from being around children, neither are the children.

We have just had a baby boom actually. But in a society where soon the majority of people will be over 60. So you could argue youth will be rarer and more valued. Or it could go the other way and the youthful will be treated badly, as a minority.

I joined the local WI, catinabox. OK so we are yet to have a teenage member but the age range of our members ranges from thirties to eighties. Good for community cohesion I think. I certainly learn from the older women and I hope they learn something from me too.

Yes we have had a baby boom but more couples are choosing not to have children so there will be more children but less people having them.

I like children a lot. Hope that doesn't make me sound creepy. I think they are funny, interesting little creatures. I enjoy seeing children in restaurants, cafes, tourist places etc. Several times, I have found myself people watching and I wonder if some people here have extrapolated that this means I am "giving them a dirty look" or judging them. (Not talking about the OP here.)

I think age is relevant because you should gain in empathy and understanding as you mature.

When I was in my 20s I didn't really like children. Conversely loud groups of young people rarely bothered me.

Now I am in my 30s and have children they bother me mych less. Loud young groups are probably a bit more irritating, but I have the self awareness to know that was me once, and they'll grow up. I find it hard to believe that when I'm in my 40s and upwards I will have forgotten what it's like to be a 30-something with young children.

Surely you should gain in wisdom as you age, not narrow in your opinions?

OP your kids sound like a credit to you. Some people of ANY age are just moaners.

OTOH my dh and I went out for a meal last week and a woman sat behind us had a laptop and started to play a Hollywood movie very loudly for her toddler, who kept on getting up and about anyway. Im sorry to say I asked her to turn it down which she did with very bad grace and giving me the evil eye until they left
However I wouldn't mind kids talking, playing board games, with model cars etc. The older people you encountered dont realise how well behaved your kids were in relation to how they could have been! Dont sweat it!

"Surely you should gain in wisdom as you age, not narrow in your opinions?"

Ha! Well, that's the idea I suppose, but that's not what happens with most people, in my experience. People often tend to gain confidence in their opinions as they age, and the more sure of your beliefs you are, the more you'll disregard anything that challenges them.

However, in fairness I've also met a few older people who really do seem to have gained in empathy and wisdom with their years. I hope to be one such, though probably I'll end up a grumpy old sod.

Is this today's bash an oldie thread? I was going to ask if I could join in until I realised I can't because I'm an oldie .

BlackBorderBinLiner "YANBU, I dislike going into cafes frequented by old people - the stench of wee and lavender can be overpowering."

How fucking rude.

Nobody has yet answered what is old?

Exit Old is older than the person calling the other people 'old' apparently!

Thank you. 👵

Bumping, because I've got something to add, but still in the thinking stage. l will be along soon ...

Ok so here goes...

Op, YANBU...your dc sound lovely and a credit to you.

Does anybody remember the girl who took a company to court because she was expected to stack shelves? She thought it was beneath her because she had a degree., having left uni not too long before..(not that the degree/uni is relevant here).

Well, here is me at the time, shouting at the tv:

"Er, well, excuse me, luv, but dh and I worked all those years in dirty sweaty factories, shedding blood sweat and tears, working 12 hour shifts and generally 'going without' in order to pay the bills/have some sort of comfortable life/have a decent pension pot for our later years (seeing as the govt state pension will probably be zilch by then) and you are complaining about stacking a few shelves???" *All true, by the way.

Well, shame on me, because I sounded like the following, something I desperately didn't want to sound like...

' well, the kids of today have it all handed to them , don't they? They don't want to work, have all these i - bloody things at the drop of a hat. Not like us in our day, when we went without, all the hard work, long hours, and the rationing and scarcity we had to endure during the wars. These kids don't know they're born, haven't got a CLUE'.

(MY mil is a prime example of this, her attitude is" if you haven't been thru the wars/are under the age of 50 ish, I will either ignore or patronise you, because you know nothing. And if yoy're under 15, you should be seen and not heard". Bloody wonderful)

It's not the kids of today's fault that they/we were born a couple of generations on, and only know about the war through Grandad/history lessons at school. Nor can anyone blame some of the 'war' generation for being bitter about it all. Society has evolved, material things have become more accessible as somebody posted earlier, and some of the war generation will never come to terms with that, the generation gap is not going to close until all of the people of that era have shuffled off the mortal coil. And thats going to be ages off yet...

Sorry for all that ranting. Thats how I see it anyway.. I can see both sides, young and old, and wish wholeheartedly that tolerance would prevail...

By the way, I'm 47, and am in an unenviable position of being middle aged. The young think I'm old (think of how you saw your parents when you were about 11yo.. ancient), and yet the aforementioned war generation talk to me like I'm a child......arrrgghhh.

crushed Sorry. Middle aged begins at 51.....

catinabox- you have soooo made my day!!

Interestingly, dh and I are classed as mature travellers on Tripadvisor....
But then again, you are as old as you feel, and the biggest sadness, I feel, is that people act older than they are...it's just a number after all, age is a state of mind.

47? Mature Travellers?! 'Mature' doesn't start until 62. No wonder Trip Advisor are going down the pan...

Obviously not caught on yet that people are living longer then