Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that if you don't like children, then don't...

126 replies

gintastic · 24/08/2013 15:52

go to Frankie & Benny's for lunch on a bank holiday Saturday.

Lots of tutting and humpfing from the elderly couple sat next to me and 3 DC's. They were all behaving nicely, eating properly, good manners etc.

Couple in question had a nice discussion about how eating out was a luxury and children today are spoilt, and how they didn't know anywhere where you can eat in peace these days.

Well, it certainly won't be F&B's, they are very kid orientated!

Would you have said anything, given that they didn't say anything to me, just had a loud conversation that I could hear and did lots of pointed looks at my 3yo when he dropped his fork on the floor...

OP posts:
catinabox · 24/08/2013 17:24

thecatfromjapan what insightful and thought provoking posts.

worraliberty you are maintaining a discriminatory discourse is at play, but perhaps it is the reverse? Perhaps the older couple were being discriminatory towards the children?

I am sure not all cultures are so negative and as 'tutty' towards children as British people feel that they are able to be.

Misspixietrix · 24/08/2013 17:26

I posted about this Only the other day. One we go to has a seperate family area where I always go with the DC's you will always find some adults down there that will then promptly complain about the Noise. Even though their Area is full Carpeted and nearer to the Bar Grin if OPs Children were playing up then they WBU but they weren't. I'm the first to take Ds out of situation if he gets a bit whingy tired but I would be a little irritated at someone dropping comments like the OP received and I would have said something ~

Fillyjonk75 · 24/08/2013 17:27

If there were adult only places, then that would be the best of both worlds - families could eat out without the tutting and the adults could eat out without being annoyed.

There are tons of adult only places, or rather places that are not particularly family friendly, in the UK. Other countries are vastly more family friendly.

WorraLiberty · 24/08/2013 17:29

worraliberty you are maintaining a discriminatory discourse is at play, but perhaps it is the reverse? Perhaps the older couple were being discriminatory towards the children?

This thread is full of ageist remarks.

And the OP didn't even need to mention the fact the couple were old

As I said, if she'd mentioned their skin colour instead of their age, this thread would have taken an immediate different turn.

If the couple were in the wrong then they were in the wrong...but their age has nothing to do with it.

PresidentServalan · 24/08/2013 17:30

Most restaurant, cafes, pubs etc in our area are always packed with families (unless they are top end prices or total shit holes!) day or evening so whether or not they are child friendly doesn't seem to make any difference, iykwim.

catinabox · 24/08/2013 17:33

If the couple were in the wrong then they were in the wrong...but their age has nothing to do with it

But they were being being grumpy old tutty bastards worra

Fillyjonk75 · 24/08/2013 17:35

And as for pubs, there are plenty of adults who shouldn't be allowed to drink in them.

I have heard of kids running about and making a nuisance of themselves but I don't recall hearing of young children glassing others, biting ears off, punching, making unwanted sexual remarks, carrying out sexual assault, stabbings, criminal damage, hassling groups of females, being drunk and disorderly in the street, abusing the police, using loud and offensive language, singing football songs and starting a mass riot. These things are usually carried out by those more than old enough to know better. Really, children in pubs is the least of our worries.

WorraLiberty · 24/08/2013 17:36

Don't be so ridiculous catinabox

So if they were grumpy, happy, sad, they'd be old grumpy, happy, sad bastards? Hmm

So if they were young, grumpy and black...they'd be young, grumpy, black bastards??

Do you see what I'm getting at?

You can be grumpy and tutty at any age...so why bring age into it at all?

EstelleGetty · 24/08/2013 17:37

Seriously, why the hell would you go to Frankie and Benny's if you didn't have to? If I were elderly, I'd do as my wee granny used to do when she was still around - go for a big fish tea with a hefty OAP discount and shoot the breeze for ages with the other auld yins. In fact, I look forward to doing this in 50 years or so.

BlackBorderBinLiner · 24/08/2013 17:38

YANBU, I dislike going into cafes frequented by old people - the stench of wee and lavender can be overpowering. I always remind the DCs in my loud, clear parenting voice not to mention it out loud.

If you want to be more discrete lean over, but still in a clear voice, hearing imperment can strike at any age, take a leaf out of top sit-com 'Dear John' and suggest they blame any unpleasant orders on the kids 'You have that one on me love'.

HTH

catinabox · 24/08/2013 17:39

Youn are completely correct worra i'm just being ridiculous for fun.

But the catfromjapan has a point about whatever she had a point about that is too clever for me to get my head around at the moment. Something about the perceptions of the older person and power....

Therefore perhaps the age of the couple was significant?

catinabox · 24/08/2013 17:40

But yes, if you replaces that with black, gay etc, you are right. It would be completely unacceptable

PresidentServalan · 24/08/2013 17:43

In this sort of debate someone always brings up bad drinker behaviour - I think that's too simplistic. Few adults actually behave like that. And for those that do, it's unacceptable so they are arrested, prosecuted etc. I am not talking about extreme behaviour, I am just suggesting that there should be places where adults who may not like children can eat etc without getting pissed off and then tutting, moaning etc

thecatfromjapan · 24/08/2013 17:43

That was an interesting post, BirdsgottaFly. I'll definitely bear your points in mind when I'm interacting with others.

catinabox · 24/08/2013 17:43

YANBU, I dislike going into cafes frequented by old people - the stench of wee and lavender can be overpowering. I always remind the DCs in my loud, clear parenting voice not to mention it out loud

Grin
PresidentServalan · 24/08/2013 17:44

blackborder I really hope you were being sarcastic!

babyboomersrock · 24/08/2013 17:45

I love this vision on Mumsnet of old people who're inclined to be miserable bastards, who've never been children or had their own children, or currently have grandchildren...and who of course all read the Daily Mail.

And then there's this...

My guess is that that older couple perceived our OP as having a lot of power (young, sexual potency visibly displayed) and also vulnerability (out with her little ones, a mother) and that, in some way, challenged them. Perhaps they felt she was also wealthier? Anyway, it made them unhappy, and that was how they reacted and rationalised their feelings

Bit of a wild guess or two there.

Sexual potency? Oh how I laughed. Power? When the power in the land (sadly) is still largely confined to the old white male you referred to earlier? I don't see his position being usurped by the fertile young woman here. He's quite safe and can continue to read his DM in peace.

Most of us are aware that while young parents may appear to have more "wealth" than we did, they also have more debt, and more need for both parents to go on working until they're - well, almost as old as us. I'm sure none of my contemporaries actually envies any of their young relatives.

In my defence, neither I nor any of my friends would eat at F and Bs...and none of us read the DM - so perhaps you're right, OP, and it's where the grumpies all hang out. When we eat out with our little grandson (2.5) we find that most older people speak to him, smile at him, and generally seem to enjoy talking about their own families. I think you've been unlucky.

Can't say I'm looking forward to that ol' basket chair they're saving for me at Shady Pines, though. Imagine if some of you have to care for me?? Eek.

I'm aware I have wandered from the OP's AIBU, but that's what we irritating old folk do. If we're not moaning and groaning, we're losing the thread.

BlackBorderBinLiner · 24/08/2013 17:46

I dare you to try it.....

ExitPursuedByABear · 24/08/2013 17:46

BlackBorder. Words fail me. And you.

PresidentServalan · 24/08/2013 17:49

And if you are around children a lot, what may be totally acceptable behaviour may not appear the same to people who aren't used to/dislike children. So they perceive their behaviour as unacceptable, annoying, intrusive etc even when the children may be behaving well.

PresidentServalan · 24/08/2013 17:51

And 'not child friendly' is not the same as 'no children allowed'

thecatfromjapan · 24/08/2013 17:53

For what it's worth, I really don't like people being crap to old people, either. I don't like the fact that old people are vulnerable to physical and financial abuse, and are not protected enough by us as a society.

But I think it's a bit naïve to try and convince OP that age wasn't a factor in what was, actually, very rude, somewhat aggressive behaviour.

I think this thread has hit a nerve for some people wrt the treatment of old people. I think the anger is misdirected against the OP. If those posters want to start another thread, informing mn-ers as to the difficulties of caring for elderly people, elderly loved ones, I would be very supportive. I'm just of the age where I am becoming painfully aware of all this. It's a huge issue, and it is only going to get bigger. I do think that most people have no idea how serious this is.

catinabox · 24/08/2013 17:56

I think blackboarder is joking..

anyone want a Biscuit ?

OneStepCloser · 24/08/2013 17:59

I've noticed whenever I've eaten out with the children older people love it, they chat away to the kids and always say mine or any other children in the area are lovely, very usually the children get a coin pressed into their hands at the end. Maybe I'm just lucky I've met so many lovely older people. (I've apologised before if I feel my children have been a little ott, the usual response is a hand brush away with a no no no, their lovely (even when their clearly not))

Original poster
gintastic · 24/08/2013 18:00

President, having fed the kids (again!) and come back to the post - I have been mulling over that point. I may well think that they were behaving, other people, of any generation, may have different idea of how 5 and 3 year olds should behave. The other one is a baby...

They were sitting, not climbing
Saying please and thank you
Eating nicely
Not throwing food, screaming or being disruptive.

However, we were all talking, having a conversation about dinosaurs, IIRC, and the couple may have had expectations that children should be quiet at the table.

I guess they were looking at me simply because we were the nearest table to them. There weren't really any very badly behaved children there that I saw, but it was noisy with chattering people. Maybe that is what they didn't like.

Who knows. Some interesting comments :-)

OP posts: