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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I am NOT being racist if I say I am not attracted to a Pakistani person?

429 replies

funkypigeon · 20/08/2013 20:29

I am newly-ish single after a long marriage to a man from the Middle East.
I had a conversation with a few friends today, over coffee we got talking about types of men that we are attracted to. I said Mediterranean, Middle Eastern. Then I said I am not usually attracted to Asian men, and my friend said that was being racist.

I am shocked tbh. Am I? I've got loads of Asian friends, and colleagues. Just because I don't fancy them doesn't mean I would ever be rude or treat them differently.

Opinions please!

OP posts:
LessMissAbs · 21/08/2013 13:09

LittleSporg White people equals a power group that while only a minority of the world's population holds the vast majority of world's resources and representation and power

That's because the areas whites migrated to offered good conditions for farming, which in itself necessitated certain innovations.

Other parts of the world have excellent natural resources too.

LessMissAbs · 21/08/2013 13:15

littlemog I was repeating an excellent point up thread where it was pointed out that to use the term Pakistani to mean all Asian people (as the OP seems to have done) is racist. To me that is only a hop, skip and a jump to the term Paki. Is that not racist either?

I think you are coming from the viewpoint that describing someone as Pakistani somehow has negative connotations. Whereas I would simply use it as a term to denote the country a person is from. I have never really moved in the circles where "Paki" is used much, and I don't attach negative connotations to use of "Pakistani". How else would you suggest you describe someone from Pakistan?

EstelleGetty I am mystified as to what baggage I have that controls my sexual preferences! Please let me know what it is!

WorldCitizen in the UK, you are allowed to be as rude as you like about Germans. And to a lesser extent, the Dutch. But other nationalities are afforded more consideration...

CreatureRetorts · 21/08/2013 13:15

well, I don't know why, but I usually am never attracted to Germans

It is racist to me.

It's different to say "I've never been attracted to anyone German previously" IMO as that is a simple fact. To then rule out a whole race of people for future consideration is judgemental etc etc.

It is a subtle difference.

acer12 · 21/08/2013 13:16

Would never date a German their accent would piss me off but russian yes please!!!

EstelleGetty · 21/08/2013 13:17

LesMissAbs, I'm not talking about 'baggage' attached to sexual preferences, but to the language and practices of categorising surrounding race.

curlew · 21/08/2013 13:18

Using the term Pakistani to describe someone from Pakistan is obviously not racist.

Using the term Pakistani as a blanket term to describe someone from the Indian subcontinent is racist .

acer12 · 21/08/2013 13:18

My friend only goes out with African men, she is Caucasian. Does that make her racist?

caramelwaffle · 21/08/2013 13:18

And the French LessMiss It's the Frog/Le roast Boeuf thing ... Smile

chibi · 21/08/2013 13:20

*That's because the areas whites migrated to offered good conditions for farming, which in itself necessitated certain innovations.

Other parts of the world have excellent natural resources too.*

possibly the most bloodless description of colonialism i have ever read

chapeau

worldcitizen · 21/08/2013 13:21

For anyone not feeling alive, here is one of these threads which can make your blood boil Grin

littlemog · 21/08/2013 13:34

lessmiss would you please try and read what I wrote? If course Pakistani is not an offensive term. But when it is meant to denote all Asian people then yes, it is stupid, lazy and offensive. I think that curlew has also tried to point this out to you.

crescentmoon · 21/08/2013 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LittleSporksBigSpork · 21/08/2013 13:55

How is that world? I don't see it. I mostly follow critical race theory on the concept that race by skin colour, which did not exist a 700 years ago, and was invented by an elite group of White Europeans to gain and maintain power and to give excuse to their actions. I do not see this as very American (mainly as most American education systems outright banning the usage of this theory, and American governments recent denial of my nations' rights to define its own identity). I view race as a social concept that is fluid and has been altered repeatedly to the benefit and determent of certain groups. Irish as White did not exist in Europe over half a century ago and Jewish people with White skin are far less likely to be viewed as White in Europe today than they are in America or Canada. I view race as a social concept that is very powerful and effects every day life, even for those able to ignore their own race, the race system as it currently stands prevents the full human experience even for White people and as a power system that should be deconstructed. While critical race theory originates in America and uses a lot of American lingo, it aligns with post-colonial social theory which has it's origins in multiple African nations and liberation psychology which followed from post-colonial social theory. My viewpoint may be overly academic, which also brings in a lot of Americanisms as sadly they're seen as the top source on this issue due to European institutions and media disliking discussing issues of race very much though improving on the issue (the recent calling out of it by multiple academics and writers from colonized nations has brought this area much light, the calling out of Belgian education policies by a writer from Congo did wonders for discussion) and also because America's racial history is far more known in the UK than the racial history in Congo which is still shattered by colonial occupation or even history of Australia's history of slavery and classifying indigenous Australians as Fauna within living memory. I do not see that the critical race theory I use is either narrow or particularly aligns with the mainstream American viewpoint, but uses the American racial systems as a speaking point more for clarity on a global scale than anything.

LessMissAbs - Your comment made me laugh. Do you really think it was solely migration that brought about the prosperity? Not the usage of forced free labour for centuries, not the taking of resources from Africa, the Americas, Asia by force, not the flooding of drugs into nations to get the resources that they wanted, not the mass slaughter and genocides freeing up those national resources, not the forced migrations of others off their lands for their resources? If none of it had economic benefits, why would it have been done? It would be even worse if it was just done for fun. Look at the history of chattel slavery - it came about because the European gentry thought it was improper to work the land themselves so brought in others to do it for them, Europe's own indentured servants weren't enough man power and promised the then indentured servants and prisoners of war with appropriate skills from African nations (who unlike the people of the American nations, the skilled African workers were immune through plenty of previous contact) would be returned after serving their sentences. The European gentry lied through their teeth to get more man power for their economic benefit and kept them enslaved and then brought in race as a system to excuse and expand the system even further. Even today, with all this talk about aid, European and American nations get far more resources and wealth from poorer countries www.therules.org/ than we ever give to them. By billions. The idea it's just natural resources ignores that the system has been set up to remove the natural resources from one are to the wealthier areas.

And representation has nothing to do with natural resources but rather social systems of power. When Khan, Tonto, and even African deities are portrayed by White people and people excuse as "the best person for the job" and people go ballistic at the idea of a Black woman in King Arthur's court or little orphan Annie being played by a Black girl, the system is obviously stacked. When companies would rather spend ridiculous amounts of money to badly yellowface White actors rather than hire actual Asian ones (Cloud Atlas being the latest), the system has a problem. We're missing on a whole range of stories, perspective and potential because the system is screwed up and ignored as natural when really it's man made, man sustained, and should be taken a part. Representation and media are powerful forces which shape people's perspectives and identities and the exclusion hurts people, damages all of our realities. The doll test has been saying for decades what others have said all along, we've had repeated studies showing current media damages the self-esteem of everyone but white boys, the current system is damaging. Even in the first look at the latest marvel movie, Guardians of the Galaxy, an actor said his main motivation in taking the part is because his young son wanted rid of his dark skin colour because he doesn't see any super heroes who look like him. It's hard to see oneself if it isn't portrayed, it's hard to find people attractive if they're not seen or only in cast in unattractive roles.

LittleSporksBigSpork · 21/08/2013 13:59

fixing link

strokey · 21/08/2013 14:03

Sorry not read the whole thread, just responding to the OP.

YANBU - you would surely know if you were racist. I don't fancy anyone who isn't white, never have so far anyway.

I think its quite common and in my case is probably because I subconsciously wouldn't want to have a child who doesn't look like me.

twistyfeet · 21/08/2013 14:06

Liking all the pics of handsome men. Is that sexist of me?

chibi · 21/08/2013 14:09

ain't it cute how it always just works out that way, no reason, no cause, just because

chibi · 21/08/2013 14:10

of course you would know if you were racist. that's why no one is!

worldcitizen · 21/08/2013 14:12

LittleSpork How is that world? I don't see it. I mostly follow critical race theory on the concept that race by skin colour, which did not exist a 700 years ago, and was invented by an elite group of White Europeans to gain and maintain power and to give excuse to their actions

Sorry misunderstood youSmile

littlemog · 21/08/2013 14:30

I think its quite common and in my case is probably because I subconsciously wouldn't want to have a child who doesn't look like me

What a weird thing to say. And if you are happy to say it then it's not really a subconscious preference is it?

littlemog · 21/08/2013 14:34

In fact the more I think about this statement strokey the more Confused I get.

EstelleGetty · 21/08/2013 14:39

The most racist of people don't "know they're racist." They think they are being fair and sensible. You'll meet very few people who say "I identify as racist."

Knowing and being mindful is the issue at stake here. You have to think about what you're saying and how you're behaving. Would someone else consider it offensive? Would they have grounds for that?

People partake in racist actions without considering themselves racist. Still the same old story.

EstelleGetty · 21/08/2013 14:42

And strokey, I don't look much like my mum. I look more like my very dark haired, pale dad. My sister, however, is the double of my mum. My mum certainly didn't choose a man on the basis of how similar to her he looked. I doubt many people do.

littlemog · 21/08/2013 14:42

Wise post EstelleGetty.

strokey · 21/08/2013 14:47

Sure Im happy to say it.. why wouldn't I be? Id prefer my children to look similar to me. Cant be sure they will of course, but choosing a black man to father my children would make pretty sure they WONT.

I like that when I look at my kids I can see myself in them. Dunno whats so weird about that.

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