So my quiet town had a visit from our traveller 'friends' this week and

[AndThatsWhatIThinkOfYou]

They wonder why people are so against them setting up camp where ever they please.

They arrived last Wednesday on a football field with a park and caused a whole load of trouble, for example, going to the petrol station handing over euros, being told they won't accept euros as payment, they simple got in their vans and drove of.

Made a visit to our local Sainsburys got caught shoplifting, were locked in until police were called.

Local children playing on park got beaten up with sticks by the traveller children.

And to top it all of 3 vans pulling up outside a local pub, very busy, dropping their trousers and all three disgusting men casually took a shit one by one on the pub doorstep. Got in there vans and drove of.

Then left the football field and park in an absolute mess. Rubbish everywhere.

Each incident police were called but nothing has been done.

So AIBU to wonder why travellers think this behavior is acceptable? and why can't anything be done to stop it?

No, of course not, duchess. But it sounds as though the local authorities are turning a blind eye to crime. That strikes me as being rather a more serious issue than an incident of disgusting behaviour on a pub doorstep.

It probably deserves a thread all of its own but I know of a christening where two babies were due to be christened. On entering the church the parents of the "settled" baby saw the Traveller family of the other baby and they walked out. Refused to have their service at the same time as this family. Travellers were not "misbehaving" in any way at all - they were just sitting fairly quietly waiting for service to begin. Unbelievably, the priest quickly agreed to do the Travellers first and have the other family come back an hour later.
This was in Ireland last year - racism is deeply ingrained against the Travellers.

I just can't imagine why else you would rock up someplace illegally, and then, knowing you are largely unwelcome, you'd perpetuate the stereotypes, surely you'd want to prove people wrong, get on with life normally without so much aggro? It astounds me.

even when the group living peacefully and tidily near me DID "buck the trend" as it were, they were STILL not "welcomed" - people who probably think they are broad minded middle class good upright Christians citizens were out and out NIMBYs and with no reason whatsoever. They were being bigots but they can't see it.

Thank God for a few glimmers of light on this thread. I sincerely hope that children growing up in schools alongside traveller children will be more tolerant than previous generations, just as we have come so far in our relationships with black and Asian minorities. NO its not ALL peace and harmony, but it is a damn sight better than it used to be.

I think it's an oversimplification to say 'oh replace your traveller comments with black, Muslim...etc etc'

People are talking about unpleasant experiences with travellers which are then excused by 'it's their culture' and insinuating that posters are racist.

It's not racist to be annoyed at serious anti-social behaviour which is the product of a 'culture.' It is not racist to point out how this culture gives rise to serious health and economic inequalities particularly for women and children.

Amber76, how did they know that the other family were travellers?

The problem is that the negative experiences are so negative and so sudden to small communities, and they don't stay long enough to get to know who are trouble and who are ok in the community.

We recently had travellers in our town - there were more bikes stolen from the train station bike racks in the week they were here than in the 12 months before (and unusually, all bikes were being taken - cheap ones and those well chained up, normally it's only the expensive bikes with no padlocks that go). Several sheds and garages in the area where broken into (there is a very low crime rate normally in this town so this was news!). The site they stayed on was littered and filthy when they went. The nursery school next to the carpark they used as a site was broken into and a large number of the toys stolen (majority of what was left was damaged). Several mothers dropping their DCs at the nursery had vile, sexually explit insults shouted at them where all the small children could hear. At least one child was bitten by a dog owned by the travellers.

Now, there was apparently more than 5 families who made up the travelling group we had stay. It may well have only been one of those who caused all the trouble and the rest might have been lovely law abiding people who were seriously pissed off at those cunts ruining it for everyone, but they were all tarred with the same brush - they were all seen by most local people as those troublesome travellers and like others, a few liberal "live and let live" mindsets were lost. I think it's really sad that the negative experiences completely swamped the good.

Unfortunately as well, by their very nature of being spread out and transent community, it's very hard for the community to police itself.

Amber, what a sad story. Alas, bigotry is alive and well (as this thread proves).

I find it exasperating that all these incidences of anti social behaviour/illegal activity etc are shouted down by cries of bigotry/racism/prejudice. No dialogue is allowed unless it is all sweetness and light and 'oh but how can we help them?'.

This^^. Peoples experiences are still valid. The racism you despair of wont go away by pretending everyone is getting along famously.

I will be very happy to come back and report back that they are lovely people and have caused no trouble. Will that make you happy? Hope your head is not hurting

BTW - can I ask those who do have experience of the travelling community, why do they have such high infant mortality? Is if the way they raise their DCs? Is it a lack of clean facilities or access to healthcare (i can imagine it's hard to get a DC all their jabs if you are moving every few weeks and having to register with new GP surgeries)? Or is it genetic issues (I read they often have cousin or second cousin marriages, I understand that increases the risk of problems with babies)? Or something else? (not being horrible, genuinely interested, this is a first world country, such high infant mortality rates surely should be a concern for everyone)

We have a permanent traveller site near our village. It is constantly being raided by police. Each time they find stolen copper pipe, building materials, vehicles, weapons including guns etc of astronomical value. It's always reported in the local news but nothing ever seems to be done about it. They endanger the lives of so many people driving in and out of the camp at high speeds and dodging in and out of traffic. Again, nothing is ever gone about it.

ubik, no one is being shouted down for retelling some of the awful incidents they have experienced in their encounters with travellers. we all know these happen. Those being called racists are the ones who tar everyone with the same brush, because of the behaviour of SOME travellers.

Of course it is not racist to be annoyed by serious antisocial and criminal behaviour - most of which in my area is committed by white, british males from the non-traveller community. Do I therefore berate ALL young white british men? NO! even if every YWBM I had met had shown bad behaviour IWstillBVU to think badly of an entire group of people.

My only experience of travellers was as a student nurse. I went with a HV to a site to visit a mother of twins (her 11 and 12th babies) and an older man. It was a privilege to be allowed into their homes, and so interesting. The people I met lived very different lives to mine, but it was fascinating to have that insight and I longed for more. The HV was very experienced with travellers and respectful of their way of life, she very gently tried to build a good rapport with the travellers and provide them with health care information/support if they wanted it. Some of what I saw was shocking, but you can't take a snapshot of people's lives and judge without understanding it at all.

Can anyone on this thread recommended any good books about/by travellers/their history?

dingit - yes please do I don't think it will be long before we hear from you.

phantom it is awful that the group you mentioned who did 'buck the trend' were not welcomed, frankly I'd ahve welcomed them with open arms compared to the experiences I have had.

I truly think though that there are just not enough who do 'buck the trend', or they don't stay long enough for communities to let their guard down, so it's only when they leave that there is a collective 'well they weren't so bad were they?'.

It's probably many, many factors. Travelling, poverty, limited access to continuous healthcare, large families, poor literacy rates, poor general education.

It seems to be a hard, hard life. Also young men seem to have a low life expectancy, I wonder if that's due to car accidents...not sure.

Ok. So which of you lot would send your 11 year old to the park alone this afternoon?

My grandparents were from a travelling community, however they were from travelling fairgrounds and were showmen not 'travellers' as we would know them today.
They would be pretty upset as being lumped in with members of the community that displayed such anti social behaviour.
They would travel from place to place and set up in parks or village greens or promenades but each site they visited they paid rent for the site, they visited the same sites in the same pattern every year and were welcomed as members of that community or village, children attending the local schools , using local doctors etc.
All members of the family worked within the fairground, the woman weren't expected to just clean and cook like we see within the gyspy wedding tv shows.
The sites were always kept clean and tidy , nothing was left when they would move on -they saw the site as their home though so they would weed sites if they needed whilst they were on them , put out hanging baskets , planters -there would never have been a question of leaving anywhere a mess as they had to come back the following year and be with the community who would visit the fairground and would need to depend on their trade and custom and their children would be with the villagers children at school.
My father and his brothers education was a bit sketchy -they would be changing schools every 3-4 weeks , so it was difficult for them however they all went to school as like settlers the children were required to attend -there was never a question that they wouldn't. My father really enjoyed the lifestyle and it took him a while to get used to being settled in one place (which he did when he had his own family so that we could be brought up at one school and have a more stable education.)

Dontmind from what I saw which was only 1 visit and therefore very very limited experience, hygiene standards were very poor, eg the bottles for newborns werent being sterilised. Also there were about 6 people all smoking in a tiny room with newborn twins. If this sort of thing is commonplace it might partially account for/contribute to some infant mortality rates. Also the travellers i met were very untrusting of non travellers, so perhaps this might prevent some of them seeking healthcare help in time?

Hello all,

Thank you to those who reported this thread to us. We're going to go through this thread and delete posts that break our talk guidelines.

As ever, we will delete threads that become bunfights.

I live in West Cork in Ireland and every year the Bailebuidhe Horse Fair happens in a a local town. It's a 500 year old tradition. Every year the community nails everything down and waits for the onslaught.

Some years burglaries increase a bit, some years (okay most years) there's a few fights in the town when the pubs kick out, but I have to say for the most part it's a very good humoured festival.

The locals are delighted with the business and the Travellers are delighted to be welcomed. Lots of handshakes and renewed acquaintances and good banter.

My experience has been that it really is only a small percentage that behave really badly.

The mess after they go is something to be seen to be believed, but it gets cleared up quickly.

The health of Irish Travellers is significantly poorer than that of the general population in Ireland. This is evidenced in a 2007 report published in Ireland, which states that over half of Travellers do not live past the age of 39 years.