So my quiet town had a visit from our traveller 'friends' this week and

[AndThatsWhatIThinkOfYou]

They wonder why people are so against them setting up camp where ever they please.

They arrived last Wednesday on a football field with a park and caused a whole load of trouble, for example, going to the petrol station handing over euros, being told they won't accept euros as payment, they simple got in their vans and drove of.

Made a visit to our local Sainsburys got caught shoplifting, were locked in until police were called.

Local children playing on park got beaten up with sticks by the traveller children.

And to top it all of 3 vans pulling up outside a local pub, very busy, dropping their trousers and all three disgusting men casually took a shit one by one on the pub doorstep. Got in there vans and drove of.

Then left the football field and park in an absolute mess. Rubbish everywhere.

Each incident police were called but nothing has been done.

So AIBU to wonder why travellers think this behavior is acceptable? and why can't anything be done to stop it?

Erm sorry teacher but plenty of places don't suffer from anti social behaviour- ours for a start!

But teacher, do those particular groups want to stay at a permanent legal site or do they want to move around?

And do they want to pay their way,abide by rules,pitch on allocated land only and keep it nice?

Handing over local land for travellers to do what they want with is never going to be an option and neither is running up bills for locals to pay.

and why would they want to pay council tax when they seem to be able to do whatever the hell they want for free?

Teacher, as some have already said, a lot of the complaints and judgements are coming from people who live in areas where ASB is not a major issue, or even a minor one for the most part.
When I moved, I used to annoy a friend on occasion by cutting out the crime report from the local paper and sending it back to her. Because the differences were vast and I was being smug.
Put it this way.
A group Travellers camped on a local field here that was used by the community. The Saturday rugby clubs were cancelled, dog walkers went elsewhere.
As a result of ASB, the police were involved in monitoring and trying to control the behaviour, the council paid thousands to right the damage and clear up.
Where I used to live, there was an incident where a couple of Traveller lads accidently knocked down a Bengali child who was playing in the street with friends and drove off. The child had a broken arm and bruising.
The young men of the Bengali community raided the site overturned 2 caravans and set them on fire, there was a riot. The young men of the Pakistani community joined in for solidarity, the West Indian youths joined in for fun on both sides, and the elderly white immigrants stayed at home and rang the police who eventually turned up and arrested everyone not smart enough to be elsewhere.
No one cleared up the mess beyond making the streets clear.
We had several riots a year, usually small ones, between factions within the community. Council were carrying out a 50% slum clearance and most of the children were FSM and clothing coupons.
Talk about living like that where I am now and the majority of people respond as if you are discussing some far away land. It's not within their experience.
Which is why, when the same squalid mess is left behind, the same trail of thefts and destruction and memories of being made afraid and angry within their own community, people want to make sure that all the problems stay in a far away place.

I live on a traveller site,in a static caravan. I moved here as I am a single mum,on a very measley carer wage. I am unable to pass a credit check and have no guarantor. So its virtually impossible for me to find rented accommodation.

I think sites like these (legal) are great, my rent is very low and i'm finally able to build up some savings. Many families who live here are in the same position as me.
The family (english travellers) who own the site are wonderful. Last week one of them knocked on my door with a bag of clothes for DS. He wouldn't take a penny for them,his kindness brought tears to my eyes.

Flip side,there is a illegal site next door who burn their huge mountain of rubbish once a week. Last night a husband dragged his wife down the road by her hair. The police won't enter the site and the other travellers came out their caravans and were whooping and cheering.

But that husband is an asshole,not because he is a traveller but because he is an asshole. What bothers me is that woman wouldn't dream of looking for help, as travellers feel so victimised by the general community. I hope I've articulated what I am trying to say, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

You have. And it's really interesting to hear this story. There hasn't been much from "the other side". HOpe you use the savings to catch the break you need, and build the life you want wherever you want it. x

Their way of life looks very attractive

Really????

Imagine being born into a travelling community for a minute. It is the only life you have ever known. Fast forward 40 years. You are now pregnant in your mobile home with your 11th and 12th twin babies. Its the middle of winter,and freezing cold in your home. You aren't allowed to register at the nearest drs surgery because you are told you don't have the right documents, (but really it's because the surgery are being racist towards you) so you can't access the healthcare you need.

Doesn't sound like a barrel of laughs to me. The travelling life must be incredibly hard, for all manner of reasons. Not paying council tax etc is hardly a massive bonus when you actually really consider the daily lives and hardships travellers face.

Thanks beer

NightScentedStock - hard life or not, that still does not excuse the behaviour other posters have described on here.

Of course it doesn't excuse some of the behaviour described.

However I think it is fundamentally wrong to make sweeping judgements about a diverse group of people based on limited experience, and that is what I have seen throughout this thread, and that is very depressing to me.

Shitting on a doorstep is always agrim thing to do. Two men I know (both from vair wealthy families and privately educated) thought it would be great fun on a summers eve while at uni to go into the hallway of a house whose front door was open and shit on their stairs. They were caught, but because their daddies spoke very nicely to the police, they weren't charged because it would be such a shame for such 'talented' boys to have their glittering future careers jeopardized. It seems to me as a society we are far more forgiving/understanding of wrongs done by eg middle class housedwellers than those done by travellers. This is discrimination plain and simple and that is wrong.

However I think it is fundamentally wrong to make sweeping judgements about a diverse group of people based on limited experience, and that is what I have seen throughout this thread, and that is very depressing to me.

But the numerous similar experiences that many posters have written about on here prove that it's not just 'limited' surely? I don't think one person on this thread has said 'all travellers do this', but this is not just one or two individuals behaving in this way, it does seem to be a problem with many groups who settle for a brief period of time and then leave with a trail of destruction behind them. Are you saying that everyone should just accept that? And yes, you could say that people could try and work with the travellers more/try to understand them better etc. but that is quite tricky when they are only there for a short amount of time and then move on.

SucksToBeMe

good for you babe. Keep saving, and I hope you can change your user name to.... itsoktobeme

in the very near future

you post nailed it for me.

I cant beleive this fucking vile racist thread is still running

shame on you MNHQ

and coconutty, I am so fucking sorry. I have been shouting to avail since this thread started

This is true - I have lived near 2 council-run traveller sites in different cities and for years never even realised they were there.

But I have also experienced our local park being turned into a fly tipping site and horses being left to wander a busy A road.

I can understand people feeling really, really angry about this.

A group of personal experiences on mumsnet is just that. My experience of travellers is different to others here, and i dislike generalisations based on such experiences.

People on here don't seem very accepting of the fact that travellers have a right to roam, they are disgruntled that they don't pay council tax, they clearly don't welcome them or do anything much to understand their history/culture/ways/problems.

I am not denying the problems people describe here, but hand wringing and moaning will only increase the amount of bitterness and hatred towards a group that already suffers from much misunderstanding and discrimination.

People could actually choose to do something positive, eg consider supporting charities that work with travellers,, rather than endlessly maligning them.

but isn't it important to have the debate and learn some new things about this? As I said earlier, I have no direct experience of Travellers, but it is something that's talked about, and in the media a lot. This thread has shown me that, in general, permanent sites work well and so if this came up in my local area I would now feel that a permanent site wouldn't be a bad thing, as the main problems seem to arise from temporary sites, so my thinking on this subject has been informed for the better. And that if I now have this debate with someone I know, I can put that view forward, and maybe their mind will be changed too.

I think that most posters know that the acts of some people don't mean that's what a whole community is like, but equally, if a poster's experience of Travellers has been bad, without exception, that's not racist, it is just a rather depressing fact. And, unfortunately, that seems to be the case with a number of posters. They aren't saying every Traveller is like this, they are saying every Traveller they have come into contact with has been like this. Not the same thing.

I think it's a good thing that this thread stands, with the racist posts deleted. If someone started a thread which seemed disparaging about Catholics, for example (which I am) I wouldn't want it deleted, I would want to get involved in the conversation. And I would also be aware that Catholicism, and some of its ministers, have done some pretty dire things in their time. That's a sad and depressing fact too, and of course one that might colour people's view.

'People could actually choose to do something positive, eg consider supporting charities that work with travellers,, rather than endlessly maligning them.'

Well, some of us have been part of the community conservation groups that have gone into an area after a visit, and after the council have removed the excrement and the dumped whitegoods and the rubbish.
We've replanted trees and pruned the damaged ones, repaired paths and fields torn up by bikes and replaced fencing. That sort of thing.

Duchess

I really don't agree with you, just because lots of people have had this experience doesn't mean its widespread or the majority of travellers behave like this, its just that you notice ASB more than reasonable behaviour.

As an example, Scotland played England at football on Saturday. Hundreds of Scotland fans took over Trafalgar Square and got royally pissed. They made a right mess of the place and stopped other people using a public space, even if they were by and large pretty good natured about it. Everytime Scotland play England in London this is what Scotland fans do and this will be a the only experience of a large group of Scots for lots of people.
Based on this hundreds of people could come on here and write a thread saying all Scots are drunken, blue faced kilt wearers who like causing chaos in city centres and hundreds of others would back them up because that's what they had seen.
Meanwhile, nearly 5 million other Scottish people, including me, are at home quietly getting about their business.

It just seems like a very one sided debate to me mrs0 with lots of thinly or not so thinly veiled racism thrown in.