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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the diet industry is utterly evil?

385 replies

ICBINEG · 11/08/2013 13:16

been watching 'The men that made us thin' and am simply overwhelmed.

So diets don't work....most people end up heavier than if they had not dieted at all...one guy was like "well duh! if they worked we would lose our customers"....another wrote a book aimed at teenage girls including the advice to " buy scales and keep them secret from your parents"

The constant stream of adverts aimed at middle aged women are seen by children who by age 6-7 have self-esteem issues and can quote the number of calories in most foods...

My evil-ometer is broken.

OP posts:
haggisandneeps · 15/08/2013 21:49

Totally agree Darkesteyes

Ours are the stories never told but the ones that need to be heard the most.

I'm not saying that our experiences will happen to other people but I wish I had been informed that this could happen. Yes OK I was probably doing more damage being seriously overweight (21st 6lbs at my heaviest) but I was never at doctor, never had any medication, never at hospital. Massive weight loss and suddenly I'm living in the already very stretched pocket of the NHS.

If I had been warned that this was how I may end up would I have still done it? I seriously doubt it. My cholesterol level was checked at my heaviest and it was under 4, my blood pressure normal/low so I may have been fat but I was healthy. I would swap being that size again and be pain free I really would and I never thought I would hear myself say that.

Darkesteyes · 15/08/2013 22:18

Oh haggis my old weight back then pre SW was 21 st 1 so close to your old weight.
And SNAP i was never at the doctors either. Never had high blood pressure when it was taken on the rare occasions i was at the surgery. Afew stone later i was in and out of casualty so often they might as well have given me my own parking space. I was mixing doses of tramadol paracetamol anything to stop the pain. Neither drug worked on their own or together i was desperate and climbing the walls.
Then doctors coming out to give me morphine injections and finally morphine pills which melted under the tongue.
but pre weight loss yes i was unhealthy but i wasnt in all that pain.
I just watched the second prog of The Man who made us Thin with Jacques Peretti.
I didnt actually see the first one Will have to catch it on I player. but haggis i understand what its like to be rolling around the bed in pain. I used to scream that i wished i was dead. and that i wish id never dieted. The parellels here are astonishing.

ICBINEG · 16/08/2013 00:50

Gosh I had completely misunderstood. I didn't realise this was chronic for you two. So, so sorry to hear what you are going through.

Is there really nothing that can be done but dull the pain? What is actually causing it?

The thing is that you didn't have only the options of staying overweight or this...you could have lost weight slowly...

I didn't think I could hate the diet industry more than when I started this thread but I am finding a way.

It is simply abysmal that they failed you both.

OP posts:
ICBINEG · 16/08/2013 00:59

Have you ditched your gallbladders?

OP posts:
Darkesteyes · 16/08/2013 01:00

Hi ICB Mine is exacerbated when i drop my portion sizes I did comfort eat a bit in early 2008 due to personal reasons but have been trying to lose weight again since late 2009 and EVERY time i eat less im in pain But unlike with haggis it no longer involves hospital admissions for me. Haggis has it worse than i do.
I did try to slow it down but then i would gain so it just didnt want to work that way.
Am struggling with WW at the mo It involves too much faffing for my liking. Im not going to worry too much about points Im upping my protein and lowering my carbs and walked for an hour and a half today so i dont see why all that shouldnt get the weight off.
Pissed off that WW is such a faff.

Darkesteyes · 16/08/2013 01:02

Mine was removed in 2003 Haggis has had hers removed too but i dont know when. What we have is phantom gallbladder pain. Apparently its quite common Ive googled it before.

Darkesteyes · 16/08/2013 01:09

The connections between rapid weight loss and gallstones were not as well known about 11 years ago when i was going to SW
That same year when i began to get ill DH looked on the net about illnesses caused by rapid weight loss and found one American study. Now if you look up rapid weight loss and gallstones loads of different items come up.

I was thinking earlier.... You wouldnt have a heroin addict or an alchoholic being treated by people with no medical knowledge. So why do we accept what we do when it comes to weight (after all its long since been agreed that obesity is a medical condition too). Some ppl are going to think im being stupid but IMO slimming consultants should have some form of medical knowledge or training.

Ilovemyself · 16/08/2013 06:34

Two points.

SW ( I can't speak for others as I have no experience) consultants, whilst having no medical training are backed up by top specialists at head office. Also, when it comes to anything medical consultants will not enter into a discussion-they will refer the member to their GP.

I don't think they need to be trained if the plan is backed up be research at head office.

Secondly interesting point about gallstones. Does this also
Apply to those that have surgery (like a gastric band) as that is another way weight can be lost very quickly. Personally I think that the surgery route is worse as you are not changing your lifestyle habits - just your stomached size.

haggisandneeps · 16/08/2013 06:51

I too tried to slow the weight loss but instead of slowing it down I would gain so it was rapid weight loss, do nothing or gain weight for me.

Now small portion sizes leave me in a lot of pain so I have to eat more to stop the pain from happening which is why I'm now 1 stone 10lbs heavier than I was when I came off Slimming World.

I had my gallbladder removed in December 2010 (that was a fun Christmas!) and I've pretty much been ill ever since.

There was one occassion that I can't really remember too well but my husband is still haunted by it. I woke up early hours of the morning crying with pain then soon got to the point where I was doubled over and screaming in agony. I couldn't walk so I crawled to the bathroom vomitting all the way. I crawled back to the bedroom, screamed 'I'm dying' and promptly collapsed. Husband phoned an ambulance and they couldn't wake me up at first they were doing all they could to bring me round and when I eventually came to I was taken to hospital and straight to the resus room. The hospital never get to the bottom of the cause.

I was at the hospital a few days later with my husband and kids and he said 'There is that paramedic who came that night' The paramedic spotted me and walked over to me. He said 'I can't believe you are still here. We (he and the other paramedic that attended) thought that one of you heart valves had ripped and there was no way back from that. You were such an awful colour I really can't believe you are up and about'

I seen the other paramedic a few days later. He knows my Mum and Dad and he told me he was mentally preparing himself to tell my parents that I had died as he thought it would be best coming from someone who knows them.

The other hospital admissions have been for the same severe pain but luckily never as bad as that again.

Good luck again on this journey Darkesteyes. I hope it works for you without pain!

ICBINEG · 16/08/2013 11:15
Sad

I am so sorry to hear that. I really hope you didn't read into my comments that I in any sense thought it was your faults that you lost weight to fast...I don't think any such thing AT ALL.

I am feeling panicky because I know someone who crash dieted recently who is now needing pain medication...but hasn't admitted what is going on. I did tell them it was dangerous to lose weight fast, but I only knew the nebulous 'doctors say' version and I would say something much stronger now I have heard your stories. I will be so angry if he has the same thing...with myself and the world.

OP posts:
haggisandneeps · 16/08/2013 11:24

Not at all ICBINEG.

I hope your friend is ok and not about to go through what myself and Darkesteyes have gone through Sad

Darkesteyes · 16/08/2013 13:44

oh haggis im so so sorry Thats awful. I had a shit Christmas because of it one year too. 28th April 2003 i had my gall bladder out The previous Christmas 2002 i had a a gallstone attack. I had agonizing excrutiating pain late on Christmas Eve. The duty doctor came out and gave me a morphine injection. The next morning i got up and tried to walk to the bathroom and my legs gave way It was weird like they had no bones in them. i struggled to get up determined that Christmas(my fave time of year) was not going to be ruined. Was due at my parents for dinner. I collapsed again in the bathroom doorway and lost conciousness for a few minutes.
When i came round i heard a muffled voice using the phone Dh was calling an ambulance. I was taken to hospital and kept there all Christmas Day No one actually confirmed this at the hospital but i think i was given slghtly too much morphine. I was begging for the doc to inject me because i was screaming in pain. Maybe he thought i was some sort of addict or something. He also couldnt see my full size because i was lying in bed when he injected me and half under the covers and has he was from my surgery he may not have realised how much weight id lost and misjudged the dose.

Thankyou haggis Thanks im prob going to need all the luck i can get,

ICB im sorry to hear about yr friend. The thought of so many going through this makes me Sad Angry Its so fruatrating. Had to get up in the night and take ibuprofen, Only been on this plan for two days.

Darkesteyes · 16/08/2013 13:52

They thought that one of your heart valves had ripped? Sad Angry

RawCoconutMacaroon · 16/08/2013 15:31

I've seen interesting studies where people had their gallbladder ultrasounded, to prove no gallstones, then given different diets to follow for 6 months. Or told to keep eating as they normally did.

The diets had the same number of calories. The people on the high fat, low carb diet were fine, no increase in gallbladder disease, compared with the control group.

The people given current "official" dietary advice to follow (very low fat, very high carb/grain, almost all developed gallstones, although only a few had, within that short timeframe, developed painful attacks, the others had few or no symptoms!!!!
Remember, that was people with no gallstones, it only took a few months of low fat/high carb eating to grow them!
A person who already had stones before drastically cutting back on fat could get ill very very quickly.

This may sound odd, or counterintuitive, but the gallbladder actually NEEDS fat to empty, and low fat, high carb (especially wheat/gluten grains) affect both how often and how fast the gallbladder empties (studies have shown wheat/gluten slow the emptying of the gallbladder). These two things together lead to to much bile sitting for too long, forming sludge and stones, and eventually, illness.

So it is not the weight loss as such, but successfully sticking to the advised diet that can trigger it.

I managed to keep hold of my gallbladder by going grain free and increasing my fat intake (while still losing weight!). I was really sick to start with, but refused hospital treatment (pain thankfully not quite at the "I'm going to die" level).
I did a lot of reading about how the gallbladder works, and how the experiences of the pp in this thread (gallbladder surgery NOT curing the problem), it's really quite common and people are rarely told this, surgeons are more likely to blame the patient for having the cheek to remain ill, and may even say its all in your head. The pain is not phantom, it's real. The gallbladder is only one small part of the bile salts production system, the storage organ. Cutting it out doesn't stop the problems that might be causing the stones in the first place, there can be issues in the liver and ducts too.

I decided to give it a year, to try and cure the problem unconventionally by going grain free and slowly increasing my fat intake (needs to be done slowly to minimise serious attacks while the gallbladder and the rest of the system heal and become less inflamed. I had 6 months of gradually reducing attacks, then nothing. That was a couple of years ago. I consider my self very, very fortunate.

I followed the suggested protocol of a Swedish doctor (google dietdoctor.com lchf). Interestingly, this may also help people who have no gallbladder but still have gallstone attacks!

CoteDAzur · 16/08/2013 15:34

Why would you think current dietary advice is "very high carb"?

CoteDAzur · 16/08/2013 15:42

Diet rich in animal fats increases your risk of gallbladder stones.

RawCoconutMacaroon · 16/08/2013 16:07

No, conventional wisdom is that fat causes gallstones. A disordered metabolism does.

Modern western diets are massively carbohydrate heavy, most of that is processed grains (that includes HFCS). We have never eaten as much processed carbohydrate as we do now, it is a very recent thing.

CoteDAzur · 16/08/2013 16:30

I didn't link to "conventional wisdom". I linked to a study that found animal fats (as well as processed carbohydrates) increase risk of gallbladder stones.

CoteDAzur · 16/08/2013 16:31

And I didn't say modern diet of most people isn't carb-heavy. I said the modern dietary advice isn't to mostly eat carbohydrates.

RawCoconutMacaroon · 16/08/2013 16:33

A little general reading here discussing why the current medicak view doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, but there are evidence based studies to back this up! And important to note that the study showing the formation of gallstones on a low fat high carb diet was well designed controlled study and not a retrospective diet questionnaire.

second-opinions.ginwiz.com/ig8del/lnk000/=www.second-opinions.co.uk/gallstones.html/

Sorry no idea how to live-link from phone Blush.

RawCoconutMacaroon · 16/08/2013 16:42

40-60% of calories from carbohydrate sounds like an awful lot to me- large grain based food with every meal (and that's excluding the fruit).

A bowl of allbran, fruit and oj for breakfast, a low fat ham sandwich with fruit for lunch, pasta with meat sauce for dinner... Fruit for snacks...skimmed milk in coffee, low fat yogurt as a treat.... I think to many people that would be seem as a healthy diet, virtuous even. But actually it's very carb heavy, low on protein, deficient in fats.

It will keep the diet industry in jobs tho' Sad.

RawCoconutMacaroon · 16/08/2013 16:43

*large portion of grain based food

Darkesteyes · 16/08/2013 20:47

YY Raw Coconut. i did Slimming Worlds Green plan which was low fat high carb.

Darkesteyes · 16/08/2013 20:50

The fact that it only took a few months for people without gallstones to grow them as mentioned in your study also tallies with my experience. I began the SW plan in February 2002 I had my first gallstone attack in early July that same year.

EagleRiderDirk · 16/08/2013 21:26

Ok, now I'm panicking less. I've definitely not gone low fat high carb. I'm more low carb if anything. Phew, I hope!

Btw, I agree that there should be something on these programmes about these gallbladder issues. Its horrifying what you've both (and probably a load others) have been through.