To be irritated by what this sonographer said?

[maja00]

I recently had my 12 week dating scan. I declined the nuchal translucency scan, so was just going for the standard dating/measuring.

As soon as we got into the room the sonographer confirmed that I had declined the NT scan. The scan went as expected, baby looks fine etc.

At the end of the scan the sonographer said "I know you declined the NT scan, but I had a quick look at the baby's neck and it all looks normal. I would tell you if there was an obvious abnormality there".

Now, is it just me or is this not really in the spirit of us declining that test? If the sonographer had said it looked abnormal, then we would have been in exactly the position we wanted to avoid

I understand that the sonographer was trying to be helpful, but AIBU to be a little annoyed by this?

I said about eight hours ago that I thought you hadn't been properly counselled about the scan and that this wasn't the fault of the individual sonographer but more your midwife.

ice is right its a communication error and you should complain, not the sonographers fault but for all medical treatment you are supposed to give informed consent. You were not properly informed what they would check at the scan.

It seems to be an issue in maternity care/birth etc, we are supposed to be grateful and 'put ups and shut up' as ice said.

Each and every time I went overdue is as told they would book me in to be induced, not offered induction, just told and given a date. With my first I did as is as told, with my others I questioned it, asked for checks on baby and about expectant management. All too often in pregnancy and birth consent is assumed ams things are not explained properly, this is a failing in care. Women should be properly informed so they can make an informed choice to consent or not.

I have a letter inviting me to a dating scan Portofino The sonographer said to me it was just a dating scan.

Did you want her to ignore any abnormalities seen?

Just got back to this

in answer to the ops question about other tests if the NT is thick, once we were told, we were offered a heart scan, as thick NT can be an indicator of heart defects ( which ds2 has) so it isn't only downs - we thought this which is why we originally refused the test.

No

As I have explained a few times now, I was surprised that even if you decline the nuchal translucency test, nuchal translucency is still checked. I feel this, and the reasons for it, was not communicated to me.

Yes, yes! Now I'm sure of it. My sonographer commented on DD's neck and every other part of her.

In fact she was very thorough and commented on each body part in turn, ended at the nose and described it to me and told me if it looked OK.

OP, I hope you aren't feeling upset though. I also remember how fragile I felt going for my 12 week scan.

OK OP - you've said you knew they were looking at the parts of the body, heart functioning etc and you mention measurements. Given that you consented to have the scan how was the sonographer supposed to know that you didn't want them to look at the neck at all - when you did not articulate that, frankly rather illogical, position? My point is that if you didn't want this information at all then you shouldn't have taken the scan and you shouldn't take any others. But of course you will won't you?

Hi 5mad

The words conveyor belt and production line spring to mind....

The midwives attitude is one of a check list of stuff that they need to get the pregnant woman through...throwing any kind of spanner in the works or god forbid questioning the standard protocols causes untold consternation.

Well guess what! I don't care if you have done this with a thousand docile pregnant women before who never asked questions and did everything they were told....I (on average) am more recently informed than you, have more invested in this than you and will not be doing anything that I don't know the reason for, the risks of and have decided is in my and my babies best interests.

northernlurker - do you not think it is reasonable to infer, as someone with no medical knowledge, that declining the nuchal translucency test means that nuchal translucency is not checked?

It isn't the case that I didn't want the information - I did not know that it was still checked for another purpose.

I am not saying sonographers are perfect. Just that everyone is so ready to jump on us all the time. Patients are supposed to come to the scan having been couned properly. We are not given enought time to explain everything. This is not he midwives fault either. They have a hundred things to go through a the booking. I am sure you have all seen the barrage if leaflets we are given. Can you honestly say you have read through every one meticulously? I know for one I haven't. I put myself in my midwives and doctors hands and trust them to know more than me.
And Blu I am on the other side. I pregnant and have had two miscariages prevousl to this pregnancy. i am going through it all too. I just think there are things that are worth complaining about and things that aren't. Did the sonographer have your best interests at heart. I am sure they did. Isn't that what matters here?

northern are you still maintaining that it is impossible to have the sonographer only pass on the information gained in the scan that the OP wishes to know?

I wasn't given any leaflets to look at. I was asked if I wanted to accept or decline the NT test, I was told it was to give a risk for DS and that I would need further tests to know for sure.

She was told there was nothing to worry about, 5mad...
Hardly something you'd need to give specific consent for.
I just hope the 20 week scan shows up nothing untoward; the op appears to have used up her full quota of stress / worry / indignation and general pissed offedness at this scan, where she was told everything looks fine...

maja - what information did they give you the second time? Do you think they just assumed that you would know, because it wasn't your first time?

I can't see why others are giving you grief over this. How difficult would it have been for the sonographer to say that things looked fine and then shut up?

Complaining is probably not the most productive approach but a politely worded letter to say that you found it disturbing and would have liked more information might do some good.

I don't get it at all. The professionals job is to check on the health of you and your baby. If there is a downs risk you don't have to DO anything, but at least everyone is aware. I really do not see why you are stressing about this. Heck, at the 20 week scan you would not want them to miss something really vital and not mention it, would you?

The nuchal translucency scan wasn't available 3 years ago so I wasn't given any information on it. I wasn't told anything this time except for the midwife explaining about Downs.

northern the op thought quite logically that by declining the nt and jsut having what she was told was a dating scan that they wouldnt be looking at the nuchal fold. They should have explained to her that they would still look at it!

And the op is perfectly entitled to not want the nt and still want a dating scan, or the 20wk scan.

She does not mind being told if her baby has any abnormalities, what she doesn't want is the unnecessary worry of being given 'odds of a risk' which is what the nt does.

Seriously its crap that woken aren't being given the information they need to make an informed choice in their maternity care!

bodicea I don't think the sonographer was to blame here...the midwife was. But I have to take issue with your statement that Did the sonographer have your best interests at heart. I am sure they did. Isn't that what matters here?

Because it isn't....AT ALL.

What matters here is that the OP was given information she didn't want because communication was sketchy.

I am sure the person that denied me pain relief during labour had my best interests at heart...but they were wrong in their assessment, were going against my express requests and have left me permanently damaged as a result. Can you imagine how much their intentions mean to me?

Sorry, but really? It's common practice to just look (but not measure) and if it looks thick then to mark it as a concern? Really? This doesn't sound very scienific to me.

Portofino - I didn't want to know if there was a down's risk as I don't feel that knowing I have a 1:100 or 1:1000 chance is helpful for me or anyone else. The midwife did not seem at all surprised that I declined.

Maja00 - what do you want to happen now? To be honest I think you posted in the wrong section because you definitely aren't wanting to listen to any of the YABU replies. It definitely feels like you want people just to say "YANBU, complain".

In the grand scheme of everything, what you are so irritated about is so small. It is an issue of 'what if' but you are luckily not facing the 'what if'. Many informed, professional posters have already explained to you that you are confusing the scan with the screening test that comprises of much more, and which you declined.

I don't understand why you are so determined to go round and round in circles really. It strikes me a little that you might be looking for something to get your knickers in a twist about and this is IT.

I think in some ways this will have been a good wake up call on what to expect for the OP, because it will be like this at every step of the way.

Get used to hearing the phrase "what do you mean you don't want it? Everyone does it...you have to...stop wasting my time and sign here..."

Fantastic - I haven't mentioned complaining.

I think there IS an issue about not being fully informed about what the nuchal translucency test is, and why it might still be checked. Seems like it is the midwife at fault not the sonographer though.

flogging its important because we are supposed to give informed consent, the op want informed correctly and that is a failing in her care.

You may not care but lots of us DO care and want to be able to make a properly informed choice.

I appreciate midwives are busy, hell at my booking in appointment for no 4 and no 5 I filled all the paperwork ands forms in myself as I knew the process and I knew my midwife and she knew me and she was busy and had phone calls to make etc.

But she did make sure I was informed and understood everything. Which is what they are supposed to do!