This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

[Wuldric]

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

I haven't read the whole thread but what I have read has really depressed me.

I am Muslim and I don't recognise the things people are saying on this thread about 'knowing' Muslims who fast when Ill or refuse to allow their comatose relatives food during Ramadan . Knowing 7 yr olds who fast or kids fainting etc etc

For what its worth I teach in a school with a 95% Muslim population. In 10 years not one kid has fainted while fasting

I get that people don't understand Ramadan and are baffled by not eating or drinking for 18hrs but lots if people have tried to explain the benefits and importance and seem to be ignored in favour of agreeing with 100 comments all saying 'well it can't be healthy can it?' Ad nauseum.

Fasting doesn't make you ill as long as you manage it. It is not that big a deal to not eat or drink during Ramadan. People will not die. Those of you who have experienced the above bizarre events of people fainting left right and centre and people fasting while severely ill have encounteredisguided Muslims

Misguided

Ramadan is an amazing time because when you are fasting you know that millions of other muslims around the world are experiencing the same thing -and that feeling of belonging is wonderful.
Also its (thankfully )the only time many of us will experience being hungry and thirsty. It makes you appreciate what you have and in turn appreciate how difficult life must be for those people for whom its not a choice.
I have never known anyone to faint or be ill due to fasting - ever. Everyone works and carries on as normal. The junior shouldn't be fasting if she is ill - I missed the first 7 fasts as I was ill and on antibiotics. You only fast if you are fit and healthy.
Its really sad that people are quick to judge an entire religion based on the actions of one person.

Reading this thread has left me feeling more drained than fasting ever could.

Interesting thread. I think you need to separate the two issues. Her sickness absence record has been atrocious during the last month and that, along with the recurrent fainting, is cause for concern, religion or not.

I used to work for a large multi national company and where possible, Ramadan was accommodated, eg via people swapping shifts and break times, working nights and so on. However, it was made very clear that if you were at work, you were expected to perform to your usual standards. If this wasn't possible, eg someone repeatedly falling asleep at their desk, people were encouraged to use annual leave or they would be treated as under performing.

It's a tough one as whilst arguably some allowances could/should be made for individual religious beliefs, equally, those without that belief, or any belief in fact, shouldn't be negatively impacted by the consequences of someone not pulling their weight.

Wuldric - in this case at my old place of work, this employee would have been put on an absence management plan, with six months to improve, as well as being referred to occupational health. I think that's all you can do here. You certainly can't be seen to be making more allowances for this person than you would for others through a misplaced sense of trying not to discriminate.

Jefferson tbh I don't even think these fainting Muslims exist. I mix with many Muslims and I have only heard of one case of a girl fainting and that was because she was repeatedly not waking up in the morning to have her pre-dawn meal as well as not eating enough for her evening meal. In that instance its got nothing to do with Ramadan (some people would actually argue its compulsory to wake up for the pre dawn meal and its certainly not common practice to skip the iftar - the evening meal) but is all the fault of her own lack of diligence and care for her own health.

By the way those crying crocodile tears for the poor Muslim children having to fast in Ramadhan can really just stop the theatrics. I started fasting when I was about 10. Over ten twenty years later I am still alive and kicking, probably a little bit overweight and have certainly not suffered any ill consequences because of it. Even then people would say to me I don't know how you are doing, aren't you thirsty and hungry, isnt it difficult etc and at that time we were breaking the fast at 4-5pm. So I really dont believe that all this concern is genuine about people fasting long hours. If your used to living a self-indulgent life where you are used to getting instant gratification then Ramadhan is not going to make sense to you and thats fine but just because you cant do it dont put down those who can and do benefit from it. Those children like me will not remember the hunger and thirst but will recall the excitement of waking up in the early hours of the morning to eat breakfast and the lovely delicious food they shared with their nearest and dearest. Imagine what Christmas dinner is like. That's what Ramadhan is like for us but every day for a month. Don't worry British Muslim kids are overindulged and overfed for 11 months of the year, one months fasting is not going to kill them.

There are numerous benefits to fasting. Just have a read about the 5:2 diet to educate yourself about them but we do it for the spiritual gains we get from it though I agree not everyone derives the spiritual benefit from it. If you have gone a whole month fasting it really opens your eyes to the suffering people go through around the world and makes you think twice about wasting food.

Just wanted to say thank you to all those people who are challenging the prejudice and bigoted views being aired in this thread. It is really comforting to see that there are people who will still stand up for justice and speak out against intolerance and hatred.

By the way the person who fainted was a young woman not a girl just in case anyone gets their knickers in a twist.

I would cut her some slack tbh.

There is a Muslim women who is fasting and each one of us in the team has sat with her on break and has not eaten.

Since I don't really eat in work I have sat with her a few times.

She has not expected this and tell us all not to worry about it.

However it's nice.

The only good thing about these threads is that you "meet" a lot of MN Muslims on them.

I can't see anyone against freedom of belief here.

I see someone not pulling their weight at work through their private life choices, and therefore needing to take the appropriate action. Which in this case seems to be to take annual leave.

No-one is saying that fasting for Ramadan causes problems to everyone. Lots of people are saying that it is perfectly possible to meet the religious requirements without making yourself ill. No-one is saying that muslims shouldn't fast.

although to read some of the responses, you would think so.

It is not offensive or illegal to think that someone's beliefs are nonsense. We can all think what we like as long as we let everyone else get on with harmless practices that don't affect our lives.

there is a big difference with i am not a believer myself or i personally would not choose to fast than to say that someone's beliefs are nonsense

I how she is not using fasting as an excuse for some other underlying problem!

Silly iPhone! I hope.....

If she's ill she shouldn't be fasting, the Muslims I work with agree with this. Last year during Ramadan it was extremely hot and one of the guys on my team didn't fast every day as he knew he couldn't handle not bring able to drink. He works late shifts during Ramadan so he can sleep longer after the predawn meal (still shifts normal on our work pattern) and another girl uses lots of annual leave to have half days or days off.

It is not offensive or illegal to think that someone's beliefs are nonsense. We can all think what we like as long as we let everyone else get on with harmless practices that don't affect our lives.

Yes but judging by the tone of the OP and some others, would go down a storm at EDL meetings - I would say it was inappropriate for MN

What happened to the spirit of teamwork anyway - the lady sounds pleasant, honest enough to share with OP (I wouldn't!!!), pulls her weight for every other week of the year. You are talking about THREE WEEKS (is never as long as a month due to menstruation). How about volunteering some sympathy and knowing that you might be returned the favour in your weaker moments

I work with a fair few Muslims and have never seen anyone faint - I like it when my female colleagues break fast and bring in yummy food to make amends for doing so

I fainted yesterday and missed a day of work - I am not fasting - I am ill

The OP hasn't even established that the fasting and fainting are linked

If the OP IS in a management position she needs some urgent training because there will be procedures to follow for persistent absence etc - which she hasn't bothered with

My manager sat me down today and did a return to work meeting to establish what was going on, if it was likely to reoccur and how work could support me - THIS is good management - not gossiping about someone online

I am a humanist - I do not believe in a god or gods but I totally respect and support other peoples right to a faith and to practice that faith - I think it's vile to insult peoples personal beliefs

No-one is saying that muslims shouldn't fast.

No what the bigots are saying either directly or indirectly is that people shouldn't employ Muslims because they fast, which is actually worse in my opinion because its promoting discrimination against muslims.

I have not read the whole thread but I,m of the understanding from talking to muslims please correct me if i,m wrong that children tend to start Ramadan around 11/12 yrs if they wish but parents do not force this if somebody is ill either physically /mentally[I,m a mental health nurse] they do not have to fast if they feel they cannot do the fast on a particular day for whatever reason it is not forced upon them and the vast majority of muslims participate in Ramadan through choice this information I have gleaned mainly from friends/ collegues who are muslim and I have upmost respect for them as I would find it incredibly hard more from a drink rather than food point of view I think particularly as it has been a much warmer than normal summer like I said this is just info I have picked up informally so please feel free to correct me

'THIS is good management - not gossiping about someone online'

Kind of what MN is about, though, isn't it? Letting off steam anonymously, hearing others' views, perhaps altering your own point of view?

I cannot imagine that anyone on this thread could or ever would suggest that muslims should not be employed. That's not what has been suggested anywhere on this thread,and I imagine mn would rightly pull a racist thread.

I am shocked by some of the comments on here. Ramadan is a month of reflection. A time for us to get closer to God. To appreciate what we have and to understand what others dont have. A time for us to focus on our religion, our family and our friends. Ramadan is not a punishment, it is an experience. If you are unwell you do not have to fast. This year i have only managed half of the fasts due to a chest infection requiring medication 4 times a day. I will make those missed fasts up when I am fully recovered.

The OP should have taken advice from HR/OT, as a senior manager that is part of her job role. Any advice recieved could and should have been passed on. There is no reason for the speculation. I have a disabled dd who because it is holidays is at home. She requires toileting, feeding, hoisting and physio. I have broken fast on a few days when I realised that I was unable to care for her as well as I normally could due to my fasting. Silly mistakes that would put her life at risk. I made the decision myself to do what was right for my family. Your "junior" should have the oppurtunity to do whats right but wont be able to do as everyone is too scared to speak to her! I doubt she even realises the tension/worry she has caused!

Whilst no one has said Muslims shouldn't be employed, there is a very dark undercurrent to this thread with implications that Muslims do not perform 100% during Ramadan. I have many Muslim friends and I really understand what they mean now when they say they have felt constantly under attack for many years.

It's sad because Ramadan is a very peaceful and joyous time. Yet there are people on this thread who seem to think it is dangerous, unhealthy, unfair to others and downright unacceptable.

As much as i find the op's tone distasteful, i am glad the the voice of reason always prevails amongst mass hysteria and mob rule.

I am glad that more and more people are wisening up to this kind of muslim bashing and questioning people who hold such xenophobic/bigoted/intolerant/racist views. Unfortunately this is not the first ignorant thread started about islam and i am sad to say, it won't be the last- but if we keep challenging such intolerance, then perhaps we may be able to educate those with such unpalatable views to re-think.

Whether she had been fasting for lent, Ramadan, or in the pursuit of a size zero, I'm afraid I would have regarded it (with the observed consequences) as foolishness.

If Muslims are lax during Ramadan in general (which I doubt) then are not Christians lax over Christmas? Or Jewish people lax over Chanukah?

Look, I am neither xenophobic nor racist. I have not a lot of patience for any form of religion, to be fair to you, but if you imagine that I started this thread to bash Muslims then you are wholly mistaken.