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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

395 replies

Wuldric · 05/08/2013 22:38

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

OP posts:
turkeyboots · 06/08/2013 15:05

At work HR issues its annual guidance on Ramadan and it tells us to allow leave where possible and asks us not to eat at our desks or in meetings to show consideration for others.

If a member of my staff had 9 days off sick in less than a month, a OH referal would be automatically be made by HR and I'd have no say in it.

Brockle · 06/08/2013 15:37

i'm in Bethlehem on holiday with my DH and his family. all fasting. neither my DH or his family have problems fasting. I think the Junior is not managing her fast correctly as she shouldn't be fainting.g like that. pre-empting the problem next yr by talking with hr to see if you ensure she does all she can to stay healthy may be the best option. I am proud of my DH and the way he gets on with things during Ramadan. he is slimmer and healthier by the time Eid comes around. his work never suffers and he even does kiddie football coaching at night.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 06/08/2013 15:43

We take fasting on a case by case basis in terms of work; we let the staff member lead and judge how they want to handle it. As examples we have allowed changes in working hours/patterns, unpaid leave, paid leave and working from home. It's hardly ever an issue though, at the minute someone in my team is on adjusted hours due to fasting, no great hardship for the team. I asked how they felt about food on desks/in meetings (have horrible habit of eating lunch at my desk) and they said they didn't mind at all. I think people should just have honest conversations; I admit to being very curious about Ramadan/Ramzam and have asked a few polite questions.

defuse · 06/08/2013 15:49

I do not believe the OP has been in any way helpful to her colleague. She has judged the entire religion, she has said some pretty insulting things about ramadan. It is funny how there is a whole lot of intolerance by some about a month where patience and tolerance is at the forefront.

Op has not at all addressed any concerns about her colleague, instead she chose an internet forum to spout out her intolerance/xenophobia. If she cared about her junior, she would have addressed it. She would have approacher HR/OH.

As for muslim countries partying all night during ramadan - that is not a religious issue, it is a societal issue. It is a shame that it has become like that in some sections, but I wonder if those talking of the partying also went and visited mosques to see the other side of the spectrum - seeing those muslims who try to make the most out of this month, spending time in worship with patience and forbearance.

Healthy fasting people do not faint so many times in a month! There is an issue here, it is not ramadan - it is a young woman who needs an issue addressed - health - not ramadan.

The issue many others have to address is their intolerance of anything muslamic!

Abra1d · 06/08/2013 15:57

"Hi there
Thanks for getting in touch. We're always happy to explain our decisions.
We edited the title of this thread at the OP"s request- she realised what she had said could be offensive/inflammatory to others.
That said, had the thread been about "this Lent nonsense" we may well have intervened if asked to do so.
Hope this clears things up.
Best
Olivia
MNHQ"

Just in case others were curious. Thanks, Olivia, and I hope you don't mind me asking. Well done to the OP for making the request to change the title.

GoshAnneGorilla · 06/08/2013 15:58

Turkey - Quite. There is overwhelming evidence on this thread and elsewhere that fainting is not the norm and the OP should refer to OH. But these threads always have a life of their own/provide a handy excuse for airing bigotry.

defuse · 06/08/2013 16:03

I love the ones that start with, 'i will respect your right to believe in such and such BUT'.....because you know something disrespectful is coming!

x2boys · 06/08/2013 16:08

I know and work with lots of muslims its a choice they make if its making them ill they don't have to do it they can break the fast personally I admire those who manage it or attempt it for long periods of time but its a choice !

GoshAnneGorilla · 06/08/2013 16:11
Grin
eurochick · 06/08/2013 16:13

redandblacks it is the antithesis of a belief system.

Many people feel the same way about chocolate as I do - it doesn't make it a belief system. It just means that a lot of people like chocolate.

Whothefuckfarted · 06/08/2013 16:18

I missed this to start with but I'd be asking her to self cert sickness for a week then if needed still, get a doctors note for absence until she was fit for work.

redandblacks · 06/08/2013 16:19

No - chocolate does not define you as a human being (mice like eating it more than humans) but your system of beliefs do (rodents don't have those).

GoshAnneGorilla · 06/08/2013 16:20

Eurochick - the fact there is a New Atheist movement with prominent figures such as Dawkins who spends an awful lot of time talking about atheism, campaigning orgs like the NSS etc, means it certainly comes across as an ideology these days, as opposed to people who don't do religion.

redandblacks · 06/08/2013 16:21

The fact that OP asked for title to be changed proves that she suddenly wondered whether she would be identified in RL and risk losing her job, not the signs of an awakening conscience by any means!

redandblacks · 06/08/2013 16:23

Dawkins, Jedi, Scientology, neoPaganism, Luciferianism, OTO and many others - all highly regimented 'faiths' which are not underpinned by belief in a monotheistic God

eurochick · 06/08/2013 16:23

Chocolate is a bigger part of my life than any religion or belief system. I think about it a lot and have quite strong views about it.

Religion is an irrelevance to me.

redandblacks · 06/08/2013 16:25

I think the smart money is on claiming a set of beliefs as your own before a set of beliefs claims you and you are not even aware of it, thinking you are a freewheeling, indie.

redandblacks · 06/08/2013 16:29

I think it is important to acknowledge that the monotheistic beliefs have a lot of common ground and understanding. That thing written about Jesus earlier on, all practising Muslims would also find that deeply objectionable.

defuse · 06/08/2013 16:30

GoshAnne Grin , I come in peace! Grin

Totally agree that OP did not change title due to becoming tolerant all of a sudden, but mainly due to self-interest and/or criticism.

defuse · 06/08/2013 16:33

I was actually quite horrified at that title about Jesus. It is totally unacceptable and I would have vociferously objected.

Oblomov · 06/08/2013 16:48

I have found this thread to be very hard, painful reading.
My friend fasts and has had no problems.
The Op and the way she phrases things, I have found, very hard to read.
The poster who refered to the 10-12 year old girls collapsing in PE.

Hmm

I had to post to say that I do not like this thread.
Best if I jog on, me thinks.

defuse · 06/08/2013 16:56

Oblomov - welcome to Op's and many others' xenophobia disguised as concern! Smile

fuzzywuzzy · 06/08/2013 17:01

People at work weren't even aware I was fasting, till I teased a colleague for offering me drinks (when he got his) as he's never offered before.
People can eat and drink with abandon around me I don't mind at all.

My work has most certainly not suffered due to my fasting, I also commute an hour each way on the central line to work.

I intend to treat my colleagues to cake & sweets to mark Eid next week.

I've been fasting since I was 7 (my choice, it was a couple of fasts till I reached 16 then properly fasting). I've fasted summers that would be June & winters, whilst pregnant as well and my child was born very healthy.

Please note I've not dropped dead nor killed anyone due to fasting, nor do I know of anyone who has.

Charlesroi · 06/08/2013 17:07

She really shouldn't be fainting unless she has some underlying health issue (which would excuse her from fasting) or she's not eating when she's supposed to. I'd encourage her to see her GP.

GoshAnneGorilla · 06/08/2013 17:11

Oblomov - I appreciate you writing that.

I wrote way upthread that the junior is probably very naive as to what some people think of Muslims, if she knew how quickly some were to think badly of you and use you as "the bad example" to smear an entire group of people, she might find it quite a shock.

All the OP had to say was:

"I work with a junior member of staff who is currently fasting Ramadan. She is very thin anyway and has fainted several times during the month and has had to go home sick.

Is this normal when you are fasting? It's just that it's obviously having a negative impact on her work and I'm actually worried about her."

See the difference?

And before any misery guts starts whining on about the horrors of having to talk about Muslims as if they are actual human beings, instead of acceptable targets of disdain - I just think there is no need for unwarranted unpleasantness, such as that displayed in the OP.