This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

[Wuldric]

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

redandblacks are you religious?
I am an atheist and I can assure you being so is not a 'faith choice'. I simply don't believe in any gods. That's all there is to it.

Everyone makes a faith choice and has a beliefs system whether or not they acknowledge it.

fatlazy beat me to it atheism isn't a religion

I work with quite a lot of Muslim people who are fasting at the moment, they are doing really well. You wouldn't notice any difference in how they are or productivity wise. Most have taken a lot of holidays over Ramadan to keep their energy levels up.

I have to agree with Fellatio, I spend many months in Saudi Arabia, Ramadan there is how she has described it.

redandblacks that is the perspective of a religious person.
You have no way of understanding what other people think and feel, so don't presume to tell me about my 'choices'.
I haven't made a 'faith choice' because it's always been irrelevant to me.

fatlazy beat me to it atheism isn't a religion

Well, I am sure you wholeheartedly believe that - I am not going to argue otherwise except to say that I do not agree. I research these things for a living so I do spend many hours of my life thinking deeply about such matters so you are most welcome to disagree but please don't assume that I have missed a trick somewhere

redandblacks that is the perspective of a religious person.
You have no way of understanding what other people think and feel, so don't presume to tell me about my 'choices'

So you have assumed that I am religious - where have I said that?So you are presuming to tell ME about MY choices. This happens all the time, unfortunately

haven't read the whole thread. Her religion is her choice, but if it makes her unable to do her job she needs to take time as annual leave, or give up the job. Not fair on everyone else otherwise.

her choice if she believes her god wants her to be ill. But like everyone else, she must earn her money.

she should take annual leave.

I am sure when I was in Malaysia people drank water during their fast.

redandblack don't get defensive. You have said you don't want to argue about this. That's a shame I genuinely don't understand why atheism can be seen as a religion, I would have appreciated some clarity on your long of view.

Her religion is her choice, but if it makes her unable to do her job she needs to take time as annual leave, or give up the job. Not fair on everyone else otherwise.

her choice if she believes her god wants her to be ill.

What? She is NOT meant to be fasting if she is ill, her religion says so, many people have already pointed this out.

Honestly, I give up. The stark level of Daily-Mail style butt-ignorance is jaw-droppingly astounding.

When she was - that is a respectful response but there is really no point. People are taking the opportunity to explain things but every few posts, this ignorance resurfaces. They don't want to be educated, they just want to get their dumb rants off their chests.

OP - why didn't you get HR involved sooner?
I think you would have saved yourself some grief on this thread.

My team leader who was Muslim explained to me that if you unwell you break fast.
Would that mean that she didn't follow advice of her own religion?
In eyes of her religion must be wrong as well to harm herself.

I remember talking to one Jewish girl and asking how she copes with having her religious celebrations on different days form those which are given free as a part of Bank Holidays in UK - she replied this is what my holidays are for. I don't understand how it is OK for someone to expect their work mates to pick up pieces, take unplanned sick days off and not to use their holidays to for that.
I suspect also that on days she fainted she went home as well.

So in 20 work days she was off 9 days - if that's not a reason to talk to HR what is?

ps. Junior can also be a doctor in training I believe

If she is not doing her job properly that is her problem and her personal choice what she is doing in her privacy!
I work in a place where there is no exceptions no matter who you are and what you are! If it is affecting her performance at work deal with it in a proper way!
Sorry, I am very direct but probably it's just the way we are treated at work( Ot clinic)!

Exceptions are death in family, illness or realy big emergancy( school call that dd is sick) . I think many people are expecting someone else to pick up pieces and I realy dislike that from bottom of my heart!!!!

I live in the middle east and know several pregnant and breastfeeding women who are choosing not to fast as "I know my own body, I am fine." There has also been a spike in fb posts (on bfeeding support fb pages) of women saying they are worried about their milk supply.

OP- Ramadan ends in a few days, so I would probably not adress it with your colleague, until afterwards - when you can see if her health is improing or not.

Improving

redandblacks - do try reading what I said. SHE believes that her god wants her to be ill. You say that this is not the teaching of Islam, which makes sense. But SHE is not following those teachings. So it must be because of her belief.

I'm not ignorant, thank you. I reiterate - if her beliefs do not allow her to do her job properly, she must book annual leave. Like the Jewish girl mentioned does. It's not difficult.

Thank you, snuffleton - belief is a choice, not an excuse to shirk.

There isno excuse for making your self Ill and then expect people to feel sorry for you and do your job! Fasting is HER problem and you don't need to take into consideration! It's not part of the contract! Simple!
How do you deal with situations like this at your work place?!?!
Why op should have any consideration, it's a work place not a gathering of a friends?!?!?

GoshAnneGorilla my post said

"I don't know which part of the country you're in Wuldric but the weather in the part of the country I'm in would have been fatal for anyone who is dehydrated. I could go without food for that length of time, but water, absolutely not.

Apparently deaths have been high. Don't know whether it's the young or the elderly or what."

My comment means that I don't have a citation that suggests any " deaths caused by people fasting Ramadan"

The point I'm making is that many people die of dehydration during hot weather, therefore fasting is a risk. I did not mention because of Ramadan.

I hope that clears it up for you.

I am not muslim but I don't think she is doing it the right way. Having worked with lots of muslims and having muslim friends, I have never seen one of them calling in sick because of the fast or feeling sick because of it.

Lavidaenrosa - same here
currently one of my team mates is following Ramadan, he is at work every day and no off sick days

Some of the comments on here about religion not having a place in modern life are very sinister. Who made you the judge of what is or isn't compatible with society?

For supposedly open-minded, rational people, some of the atheists on here sound awfully bigoted.

I live in the Middle East where the temperature is currently hovering around 45-50 degrees most days. At least 50% of the people in my office are fasting. None of them are fainting. I would suggest that unless she is ill or pregnant, she is not managing her meals properly eg she is not eating enough slow energy release food, rehydrating sufficiently etc.

If she is ill, has her period, is pregnant, is travelling etc, then she is exempt from fasting anyway.

The OP needs to talk to her junior regardless of the end of Ramadan, of whether she has an underlying illness, or is misinterpreting her faith, or whatever other issue may be behind the fainting and illness.

Because Ramadan occurs every year, and it's probably best to get all the issues sorted out so there's no misunderstandings or possible resentment next year. So the junior makes use of available leave, any flexible hours to preserve energy, etc, and everyone is clear on what will happen.

It's only fair to everyone then.