This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

[Wuldric]

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

Op has to talk to her and draw the line on what is unexceptable! Who would look after me if I say I am
fasting for 4 weeks - 3 days each week before Easter! It's MY choice so of I am fainting its my problem I don't expect my colleague to take my work for me! It's unfair! Simple like that!

Sorry for rumbling In previous post but this thread is hitting my head in

Presumably the OP's original title was edited by MNHQ because it said something derogatory about Ramadan?

Why then, was my request to MNHQ have a title that said something like 'Jesus F.ck.ng Christ' edited by MNHQ declined 'Because we don't delete for blasphemy?'.

Are they more worried about offending Muslims than Christians

If you don't understand then talk to her as one adult to another. Better still ask HR to speak to her.

If someone left a chocolate bar on a fasting colleague's desk I would get the rage. This is ignorant and discriminatory. Luckily I work in a large office and people can agree to work flexible or reduced hours.

redandblack if you are nota religious person, and I did ask you that question, then why do you not accept that for at least some of us atheism is nota 'faith choice' or part of a world view or anything to do with the media . It's simply an abscence of belief and of no consequence.

Fasting (food only) if you are fit an healthy and your body can cope is fine.

Fasting when you're not up to it, is stupid. I would have zero sympathy for a colleague who took sick days or had lower productivity because they were fasting. Welcome to take holiday days or half days but not go off sick when they aren't fucking sick.

Not drinking water is quite frankly fucking idiotic especially in the recent heat.

Anyone who puts religious ideals before their health wants their head looking at.

My journey home takes me through a very Muslim area and it is quite vibrant in the evenings at the moment. From about 9.30 onwards the streets are heaving and loads of restaurants with special buffets laid on and there is a great atmosphere. So I can see that aspect of Ramadan is good.

Its interesting how worked up people are getting about adults choosing to fast. What's it got to do with you? There are a lot of things people do that I don't agree with but its their life and their choice.

If you really want to get upset about something why don't you worry about those millions possibly even billions of people who have no choice but to go without food for days on end and who are chronically malnourished. I'm fasting today and I'm hungry but I know come sunset I can feast on a variety of foods. I know when my hunger will end there are many more out there who don't. Following on from that all those who were outraged about Muslim children fasting (I haven't read this thread through but you racists all bleat the same rubbish) how about speaking out on behalf of those children who are starving because there parents cant afford to feed them. Seems yo .nr utility makes more sense to get self righteous and preachy about those actually desperate for your help. Something like isn't it nonsense that there are people starving to death in this day and age when we have the capacity to save them.

Abraid, perhaps it is partly to do with the fact that no one is going around setting fire to churches or punching Christian women in the face and dragging them around by their hair because they have some visible sign of their faith on them. Naturally we have to take more care of offensive language that blends onto a spectrum of hatred and violence than we do with with other offensive terms.Or perhaps it is because when someone says Jesus fucking Christ they are not saying anything at all about Christ but are using a completely well-understood form of words to talk about something uncconnected with faith. I appreciate that is offensive for Christians, but it is still different from actually calling their faith nonsense.

(Does it grate with Muslims when the prophet's name is spoken without the customary "peace be upon him"? Perhaps it does, but I doubt that anyone would think of editing a thread title that did that, any more than "Jesus fucking Christ" would be edited.)

I guess the issue is that a person who is capable of starting a thread originally entitled "Ramadan nonsense" (and I'm sure that was the mild version of what the OP was actually thinking) should not be given a position of authority in a multicultural workplace. I bet that this "nonsense" is only the tip of the iceberg and is blatantly ignorant and discriminatory. I am lucky that I have never worked in a place run by people like you.
The lady's apparent foolishness has NOTHING to do with the rules set out clearly regarding Ramadan as many people have explained. She should be helped in realising that. If she does already and is still doing it then she may have other problems such as cultural ones or eating disorders which once again, are nothing to do with Ramadan and being Muslim.
In extreme cases, it is not a religious ideal being placed before health anymore than a victim of DV or a heroin addict is failing to prioritise their wellbeing.

We have just come back from a month in the middle east. The whole point of fasting seemed missed to me

Say sunrise was 4am, and sunset 7pm.
All that would happen would people would eat at 4am, then go to bed until 3/4 pm. And then from 7pm would eat/ drink/ party again through until sunrise at 4am again. And go back to bed

So they basically all became nocturnal instead, so the only time they were awake and not eating was approx 3/4pm-7pm ( max 4 hours).

This was in Oman, Saudi and Dubai at various times.

I read a great blog post about just that, forevergreek, written by an American woman who had gone with her family to Libya to spend Ramadan there with family. She said it was so much about nighttime feasting and so much facilitated by the change of habits of businesses, workplaces, etc during the day, that it lost quite a lot of spiritual edge for her, and that contrary to her expectations she found that fasting in the US was more fulfilling for her than fasting in Libya. Can't find link now, but it was good.

Go and say its nonsense to her face...I think you sound like a great person to work with, judgemental, two faced and disrepsectful.

Well said redandblacks, I hope the op is caught and sacked. Not acceptable behaviour.

she's free not to eat, to dance pagan rites, to dress however she wants, to wear a crucifix round her neck or to do whatever her beliefs tell her to do. Which religion it is doesn't matter.

she is NOT free not to keep herself sufficiently healthy to do the job she is paid to do. She should be instructed to turn up fit to work, or to take annual leave.

otherwise she is underperforming and should be disciplined or fired. Not for being a Muslim, for doing a bad job.

same as turning up hungover, stoned or otherwise unfit to do the job.

I was in Morocco in late July. All the Moroccans we met - all working in some shape or form in the tourist industry - were fasting. There was not a shadow of doubt in their minds or in ours that fasting had a negative impact on their professional productivity.

theodorakisses, really????????

"why do you not accept that for at least some of us atheism is nota 'faith choice' or part of a world view or anything to do with the media . It's simply an abscence of belief and of no consequence."

A lot of atheists say this. But the fact that atheists tend all to say the same things itself shows that it is more than a simple absence of belief. One thing it suggests is that atheism is a social attitude a shared set of beliefs about what is right and wrong, and about how the world works. Such social attitudes feel to us as if they are 'just what we think', but if you look at society generally you will find that they are shared by larger groups of people (often people like us in various ways), who all hold these ideas as if 'they are just what we think'. We are much more influenced by those around us, and larger social attitudes than we imagine just look, for instance, at the way attitudes to people on benefits have changed in the last ten-twenty years.

But also the statements that atheists make about 'atheism is simply a lack of belief' do actually implie a set of beliefs that underpin them: that there is nothing in the universe that isn't material, and that there is nothing outside the universe; that there is no life after death; that human beings are purely physical beings; (and quite often) that science is enough to tell us everything we need to know about life, the universe and everything. These are definitely beliefs and in fact they are what a philosopher would call metaphysical statements they are about the underlying principles of the physical world.

In both these senses we can see that atheism is more than "simply an absence of belief".

As for the question how Muslims cope in Scandinavia- surely life in Scandinavia comes at a standstill in the summer months anyway, just because it's Scandinavia?

Butthereagain! Go to Tower Hamlets in London! What about youn girls being sexually exploited- recent news! Abra1d you are spot on!

redandblacks I find it pretty offensive that you are telling athiests on this thread that athieism is their religion. It is most certainly not. You say that you have to consider such issues at length. I suggest you consider this one a bit more.

yes - she may be sacked for not taking it with HR, nothing else!

I admire people who fast for Ramadan. However, in the hot weather it is clearly a health issue for some people. I wouldn't fancy being operated on by a surgeon observing Ramadan, or flown in an aeroplane by a pilot doing it. I wonder whether jobs where you are required to be tip -top mentally are allowed to do it? For example are there any muslim air traffic controllers out there fasting and directing planes? Just interested and nosey. Nothing against it (in fact I admire it) but it does seem to be that sometimes it might put others in danger...

If what you choose to do in your spare time impacts negatively on work, then you would usually end up with some sort of warning. If I rang in sick with a hangover, I don't think I'd get away with it. Why is fasting any different?

eurochick - like niminy said. If the R word is a dirty word, call it a beliefs system. You must have something surely? I would feel it was quite self-insulting not to be living my life by a basic set of values - however few/questionable. As much as you like to think that you are unbridled by a common set of beliefs, many others feel exactly the same way which collectively amounts to a faith. Atheism covers many, many religions and the ignorance often comes from within it's circles rather than outside of it.

OP is entitled to her own opinions, she didn't get those to impact her relationship with person who reports to her
if anything - she gave her a lot of help
if anyone thinks that 9 out of 20 days of being unwell doesn't qualify as being send for doctors note then please explain why.